From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:09:25 +0100 Message-ID: <87vdcu1wqi.fsf@telefonica.net> References: <87ocitw2dl.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <201003130001.o2D01FFQ003489@godzilla.ics.uci.edu> <87vdd1yqe4.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87eijjzrkd.fsf_-_@mail.jurta.org> <20100317143519.GB4381@muc.de> <8739zy68n2.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87zl261yta.fsf@telefonica.net> <87sk7y4rdv.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1268860213 28567 80.91.229.12 (17 Mar 2010 21:10:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:10:13 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 17 22:10:09 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ns0V6-0007Ph-Cr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:10:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56817 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ns0V5-0004Z1-MT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:09:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ns0Uz-0004X4-OM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:09:53 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=58489 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ns0Uy-0004V5-Do for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:09:53 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ns0Ux-0002rF-BN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:09:52 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:50143) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ns0Ux-0002r5-0k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:09:51 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ns0Up-0007CA-LY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:09:43 +0100 Original-Received: from 83.53.125.178 ([83.53.125.178]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:09:43 +0100 Original-Received: from ofv by 83.53.125.178 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:09:43 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 44 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 83.53.125.178 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.93 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:fuXm47q/U4RxTuIiu95Q1M+TLUE= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:122110 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: >> Saving startup time is one of the most important qualities a product >> can have. > > "appealing", not "important". To be appealing is very important. >> Since years ago, young users need a strong motivation for switching to >> Emacs as it is no longer an editor that provides obvious benefits over >> competing products. >> >> People will start using Emacs thanks to the availability of modes for >> almost all languages, or thanks to features like org-mode. > > At one point of time you will have to decide either arguing that Emacs > provides obvious benefits over competing products, or not. I can expose Emacs' benefits to others. Another issue (and that was what I was talking about) is that potential users perceive them as such *overall*. That means that they must reach the conclussion that Emacs' benefits are compelling enough to make the effort of switching. If switching is hard, you'll need very strong benefits, and those are diminishing as other editors turns better. > When your argument requires _both_ premises, it is worthless. > >> Really, Emacs need to lower the entry barrier as much as possible if >> we want to attract new users. > > That goal takes a second place to providing the best editor to long-term > users. Both things can be achieved. > Keeping old users is more important than attracting new ones. Who is going to stop using Emacs because he doesn't want to add a few setq's to his .emacs file? > Since new ones eventually become old ones anyway. You are assuming that there will be new ones.