From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jason Earl Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Using Git to manage your Emacs changes Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 13:33:49 -0600 Message-ID: <87vdbghcgy.fsf@notengoamigos.org> References: <87aaswaf2t.fsf@lifelogs.com> <4A1FFF2C-5794-4D58-B26B-07CD7FC0BB74@gmail.com> <83d3xs4jw5.fsf@gnu.org> <87hbn2a7fk.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <877hnwj2ft.fsf@notengoamigos.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1272137669 17017 80.91.229.12 (24 Apr 2010 19:34:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 19:34:29 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, jwiegley@gmail.com, tzz@lifelogs.com, lennart.borgman@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@jurta.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org, david.reitter@gmail.com, eliz@gnu.org, miles@gnu.org To: ams@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 24 21:34:26 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O5l7Q-0001iB-VX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:34:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52056 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1O5l7Q-00023c-6H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 24 Apr 2010 15:34:24 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1O5l7J-00022S-MR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Apr 2010 15:34:17 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=42191 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1O5l7H-0001zl-JC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Apr 2010 15:34:16 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O5l7G-00044J-FK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Apr 2010 15:34:15 -0400 Original-Received: from mailout14.yourhostingaccount.com ([65.254.253.116]:60467) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O5l7B-00043i-K1; Sat, 24 Apr 2010 15:34:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscan14.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.15.14] helo=mailscan14.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailout14.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1O5l7A-0007Vv-4h; Sat, 24 Apr 2010 15:34:08 -0400 Original-Received: from impout03.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.55.3] helo=impout03.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailscan14.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1O5l7A-0006TT-5b; Sat, 24 Apr 2010 15:34:08 -0400 Original-Received: from authsmtp10.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.18.10]) by impout03.yourhostingaccount.com with NO UCE id 9Xa71e0010D2B7u0000000; Sat, 24 Apr 2010 15:34:07 -0400 X-EN-OrigOutIP: 10.1.18.10 X-EN-IMPSID: 9Xa71e0010D2B7u0000000 Original-Received: from jearl.fttp.xmission.com ([166.70.233.10] helo=jearl-netbook) by authsmtp10.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim) id 1O5l79-0006sj-SV; Sat, 24 Apr 2010 15:34:08 -0400 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwCAAAAAByaaZbAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAAAFz UkdCAK7OHOkAAAAgY0hSTQAAeiYAAICEAAD6AAAAgOgAAHUwAADqYAAAOpgAABdwnLpRPAAAAAlw SFlzAAASmwAAEpsB4JJZDAAAAAl2cEFnAAAAMAAAADAAzu6MVwAAAaFJREFUSMe1VtuxxSAIzIz9 2Iyl2Aj1bBX0k5+LrwjGjJyPy2ROwtGNBJbVCwwwy1UNoOL3f+SBxkj15Lr4NsboN24DWMZxYQNA TjGmjC1gswJiqBbpDeANYMwXBFyAFB5L7ADMBcoSDgAFBSDHR2tA8ABMSB4AawB76pAnILsKx2lm 1VfpgUi3kxrySylRHdmQj40Jva2/jl8EY3Twv/phhsC9nIQR0hnAOUptYsL3RxvAk+YIH2AWsvTH GYBgKn8GaPYm5jNANaCQ8WfAzyH9x0crFfGl9X4QVdg8gEqN2KjBHi6V/iBq6iyAxTqd+Yvupwai VwM9LZkxQ6otihmS6H+mHlK5URwi0UQgWxHoxS5JagBSed7IzJRCallS2pg2QsamcGUFNSHgLZUv augJIUualv1Bv6+yVat1oeMq92s/mBBWQJH7dQX7CnpvWWs/4CazpHlB2RR1BFSzNGdIaTbbLil8 U76BKKU0GztapXP3C78bNYQ6MTQybY8OkIaITf9HPzyHkXE4YXs4mf5VDz+jAepj3RTQ3Ubv0SPy 9AcCrfKh0TBgvgAAACV0RVh0Y3JlYXRlLWRhdGUAMjAwOS0wOC0yN1QxNjoxMTozMy0wNjowMFPN ssMAAAAldEVYdG1vZGlmeS1kYXRlADIwMDktMDgtMjdUMTY6MTE6MzMtMDY6MDAMfMT3AAAAAElF TkSuQmCC In-Reply-To: (Alfred M. Szmidt's message of "Sat, 24 Apr 2010 13:10:33 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-EN-UserInfo: f8a5a3c49e1c4664ba81facb1022c4a9:67ddfe7aeaee6d1ea5b788d961d42633 X-EN-AuthUser: jearl@notengoamigos.org X-EN-OrigIP: 166.70.233.10 X-EN-OrigHost: jearl.fttp.xmission.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:124178 Archived-At: "Alfred M. Szmidt" writes: > > Then what is necessary to do to make Git a GNU package? > > > > Agreeing to follow our practices on a lot of issues. It is most > > unlikely that Torvalds would agree. > > Does it really matter that much? I am certain that their are other > parts of the GNU system (like, perhaps, TeX), where the hackers in > question don't follow GNU policies. In fact, Bazaar doesn't > completely follow GNU policies (no texinfo documentation, and no > real plans to generate it either). > > While TeX is part of the GNU system, it is not part of the GNU > project. I hope that bazaar will adpot texinfo manuals soon, I think > someone was working on that. Bazaar has this marked as a bug (wishlist), but they are essentially waiting for someone to come up with a way to make texinfo documentation from their existing rst documentation. In fact, it could easily be argued that they are moving farther away from texinfo as they have moved from simply requiring docutils to requiring the more complicated sphinx documentation build system. On the bright side, if someone could modify Sphinx to generate texinfo then I would get my Python documentation back in texinfo format as well. Besides, that would only solve the documentation part of the problem. texinfo documentation is not likely to make the existing Emacs (or GNU) developers like Bazaar. Nor is it likely to make Savannah support Bazaar at least as well as it supports git. The documentation problem is actually relatively minor, and it is a problem shared by both bzr and git. My question, and I ask this as a person whose one small contribution to GNU is that I helped (a bit) with the conversion of the Emacs repo from CVS to bzr, is why pretend that Bazaar is part of the GNU project when the GNU developers (and systems administrators) seem to overwhelmingly prefer git? Worse, they are actively trying to undermine Bazaar, including long discussions on how to circumvent Bazaar on this very list. Dump bzr and make git part of the GNU "system," if that is what it takes, but do not pretend that Bazaar is part of the GNU project when clearly it is not. I love Emacs, and I have come to really like Bazaar, but I can not help but feel that by helping the Emacs development team move to Bazaar I have actually done both of these communities a disservice. Bazaar has received nothing but bad publicity from the switch, and the Emacs development group appears to have been hampered more than helped--despite the fact that Emacs was switching from crufty CVS. Moving from CVS should have been a no-brainer, and yet that has not been the case. In my defense I assumed that Savannah would be using a smart bzr server, which really would help a great deal. Jason