From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: moving more cl seq/mapping support into core Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 12:16:45 +0900 Message-ID: <87vd5m1u1u.fsf@catnip.gol.com> References: <4CA52B36.6060405@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1285903032 21102 80.91.229.12 (1 Oct 2010 03:17:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 03:17:12 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 01 05:17:09 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P1W7R-0000uo-KC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 05:17:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39289 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1P1W7Q-0000pT-SZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 23:17:08 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=54333 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1P1W7K-0000pF-J4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 23:17:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P1W7J-0006G0-F9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 23:17:02 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:50019) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P1W7J-0006Fs-6t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 23:17:01 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P1W7D-0000rb-Eb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 05:16:55 +0200 Original-Received: from 218.231.154.125.eo.eaccess.ne.jp ([218.231.154.125]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 05:16:55 +0200 Original-Received: from miles by 218.231.154.125.eo.eaccess.ne.jp with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 05:16:55 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 32 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 218.231.154.125.eo.eaccess.ne.jp System-Type: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu Cancel-Lock: sha1:zsLsfEL/b62fGEMxCzP2oPU5Ps8= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:131125 Archived-At: Daniel Colascione writes: > CL really should be dumped along with Emacs proper. cl.el is a combination of good useful things that and horrible ugly things (this isn't a comment on the CL language, btw -- many of the problems with cl.el are issue with its implementation and consistency with elisp). That's one of the big problems with it: it's a big undifferentiated blob (to be fair, it was written a long time ago, back when the state of elisp programming practice was ... less nice). I interpret the consistent refusal to sanction cl.el to be a simple resistance to wholesale adoption of ugly things, even if that means some loss in terms of good things (perhaps with some intent to pressure people into fixing the problems). Users don't typically care of course -- they can simply ignore what they don't like and use the 5 function in cl.el they really find useful. But the elisp maintainers need to care. Of course, there's a solution which would probably make everybody happy: adopt the good things only, and fix some of the problems with the horrible ugly things so that they can be adopted. But people advocating cl.el seem to usually stop short of putting any effort into doing that... -Miles -- "Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder." -- Homer Simpson