From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: `set-variable' should use :set Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 13:48:51 +0900 Message-ID: <87vd4tjyz0.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87d3r3qd44.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <871v7jqchc.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <033D7FA139144B03B1370B9E9C1113ED@us.oracle.com> <87bp6nklx2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <823F3463F14A490A90A6075368296AC2@us.oracle.com> <4EEEE63344BB4696B708EE3C3A8BE349@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1287809252 31291 80.91.229.12 (23 Oct 2010 04:47:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 04:47:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs-Devel devel , Drew Adams , Miles Bader To: Juanma Barranquero Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 23 06:47:31 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9W0w-000883-EV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:47:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43532 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1P9W0v-00020i-Hd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 00:47:29 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=43713 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1P9W0l-00020D-AL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 00:47:21 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P9W0j-0001h3-9x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 00:47:19 -0400 Original-Received: from imss12.cc.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.254.161]:47589) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P9W0i-0001gM-QB; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 00:47:17 -0400 Original-Received: from imss12.cc.tsukuba.ac.jp (imss12.cc.tsukuba.ac.jp [127.0.0.1]) by postfix.imss71 (Postfix) with ESMTP id 893802AF543; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 13:47:15 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from mgmt1.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (unknown [130.158.97.223]) by imss12.cc.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78AC92AF542; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 13:47:15 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt1.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 739423FA04F4; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 13:47:15 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 37F801A3C36; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 13:48:51 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM 8.1.93a under 21.5 (beta29) "garbanzo" ed3b274cc037 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:132011 Archived-At: Juanma Barranquero writes: > > Most important is clarity, and I find "However, this feature is > > largely obsoleted by `defcustom'" quite clear as far as it goes > > (it doesn't say why or how). > > I find it quite clear too. Clear, yes. I personally think it's ugly and awkward, the kind of usage a tasteless engineer[1] would invent. I would hope that Emacs aspires to a higher, more literary standard. That's why I suggested Drew contribute a patch, not as an indirect way of asking him to shut up. (The smiley was because I expected the response he produced: a few hundred words on emacs-devel and no patch.) I don't think that clarity is sufficiently important that we should say "if it's clear, ship it." Precision in natural language is as important as precision in formal languages. I don't have an issue with efficient use of one's time; if you happen to be a tasteless engineer, your contribution will be in elegant code, not elegant docs. Clarity is the sine qua non, and that's what you should aim for if getting even that is a struggle. But a superior application will have elegant docs, which the user will appreciate far more than elegant code. (Of course neither holds a candle to elegant UI.) Footnotes: [1] The adjective is not redundant.