From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hw Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Some developement questions Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2018 22:36:09 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <87va7j65s6.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87sh36inql.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <877ekigiiw.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <837ekhb2me.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhxcbmtr.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83in409lub.fsf@gnu.org> <871sanb71j.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <87k1oeaofu.fsf@ada> <20180825103413.gbm5stsl67j6weow@Ergus> <87k1od7vzf.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83wosd5h3x.fsf@gnu.org> <871sakzssu.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83bm9n6f7d.fsf@gnu.org> <87tvneql3i.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83o9dl2oob.fsf@gnu.org> <87y3coopyf.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <8736uvmn44.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <87y3chqre4.fsf@toy.adminart.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536196238 1112 195.159.176.226 (6 Sep 2018 01:10:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2018 01:10:38 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Filipp Gunbin Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 06 03:10:34 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fxioc-00009d-3b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2018 03:10:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58832 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fxiqi-0000W6-Ij for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2018 21:12:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45130) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fxipY-0000Vx-8G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2018 21:11:33 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fxipX-0001Ld-5N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2018 21:11:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mo6-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([2a01:238:20a:202:5300::12]:32098) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fxipW-0001HI-Ku for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2018 21:11:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1536196287; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=QlX9AFPb67BiG/9Dndy0F1JjwuUXWc7/ettoC8hBVwE=; b=AqHykbYs51cPIyvPH+lagjlR6OtcXFdgiHZ7720uv4fWOOm2GGqSix7e4kCuCRY16D gdXX3ayyVdz8tUv01+RCot4fnsaXoTtPGYSm5Onb2xd05z/FqA3iDoCq0U7oO4dexhVC CGxpWquhHoqGuCueQpc1AYG2QaXOySyfXCQaJBDhUh0wQbnG2vyrqlGH7DHYYsWG+M2s ogrFZ6nab+DBqyWkDqpivjsGm9dmZG2xgL9R207VZQe79HWMbbEDhtaNIsVifETuGXKs cAe1aUpNotvMxA28LRNAiq8Zfe/1LHlhO+NgVTNJFwhCgycMy86rhZLyDyIGzzqJis0/ Qwgw== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+AVdIIwXjneEe9k=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Original-Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.0 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id e03b99u861BM65w (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Thu, 6 Sep 2018 03:11:22 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1fxipO-00021W-4v; Thu, 06 Sep 2018 03:11:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Filipp Gunbin's message of "Tue, 04 Sep 2018 22:47:00 +0300") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a01:238:20a:202:5300::12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229321 Archived-At: Filipp Gunbin writes: > On 04/09/2018 16:16 +0200, hw wrote: > >> Filipp Gunbin writes: >> >>> On 31/08/2018 01:49 +0200, hw wrote: >>> >>>> Filipp Gunbin writes: >>>> >>>>> On 29/08/2018 22:52 +0200, hw wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I ended up getting stuck in the help documentation of info and >>>>>> actually had to kill the buffer to be able to start over because I >>>>>> couldn't get anywhere else from there. >>>>> >>>>> You could use `C-h m' to find about Info-history-back which is bound to >>>>> `l'. Or Info-history (`L') for the history. >>>> >>>> And how would I know this? >>> >>> The same way as a user would know about `C-h k' or other basic help >>> commands. If a user doesn't know them (from manuals or tutorials), then >>> she probably should not switch off menu/tool bars. Just to not get >>> lost. >> >> Ok, Emacs should be able to automatically switch on or off the menu (and >> perhaps the tool bar) depending on the mode of a buffer. > > Emacs cannot guess for the user when she needs or does not need a menu > bar or a tool bar. You have to instruct it to, somehow. Can I do that per mode? So I could have them automatically enabled when in info mode and automatically disabled when not? Emacs could automatically remember the last setting for each mode I used, so no additional instructing would be necessary. >> Info mode should understand the contemporary key bindings M-left and >> M-right to go back and forth in the history. (Those are bound to >> movement by word, which is probably not extremely useful in info >> buffers.) >> >> Should I make a feature request? > > It's very useful. At least for me - when I read info, I usually move > the cursor by word or by sentence. That probably means there would be a lot of resistance to get these useful key bindings to be the default :( Please try word-wise movement on a German keyboard with these keys. Do not use the Alt key for this because it has been almost 30 years that it was not possible to use that like ESC at all. Force yourself to do it for at least two hours; after that, you may use the Alt key and try for another two hours. Then tell me how useful these key bindindings really are :) > Well, this thread looks like you're describing how you fight with Emacs > defaults. You could make your own set of customizations and see what > comes out of it. Maybe others will find them useful. You could always change the default to your preference after it has changed to something people are more likely to know. You could propose that all web browsers start using 'l' to move backwards in history, too. > Have you looked at Emacs derivatives, like Spacemacs? I think they > should be closer to "modern" editors than vanilla Emacs. I looked at vim. Besides, "modern" doesn't mean "good".