From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Why is emacs so square?" 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247286 Archived-At: =EC=A1=B0=EC=84=B1=EB=B9=88 writes: > Emacs Lisp as a language and the standard library (the Emacs API) is > different. For example, the fact that functions and variables have their > own namespaces is a part of the language, and the functions > self-insert-command or bury-buffer are parts of the API. Do buffer-local variables count as part of the language, or part of the API? What about text properties in strings? File-local variables? Primitives like `record_unwind_protect_excursion`? Or how the bytecode interpreter has a plethora of primitives that only make sense within Emacs. And I would consider `self-insert-command' part of Emacs Lisp the language, since it is implemented as a subr in C code. > You can call them as a whole Emacs Lisp, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean th= at > it=E2=80=99s more easier/simple than VSCode. Yes, Emacs Lisp isn=E2=80=99= t a complex > language like C++, but for outsiders that have never used Lisp, it=E2=80= =99s > hard to approach. It's not hard to approach at all. The easy trick is to treat it as an editor macro language, instead of a Lisp dialect. > Regardless, Emacs can=E2=80=99t stop using Emacs Lisp, so Emacs needs to = be the > reason for users to use Emacs Lisp, not backwards. And that means that > Emacs should have a great onboarding experience (which is currently not t= rue) > with various packages for so many languages and productivity tools (which= is > IMHO true considering all of the packages in GitHub). Emacs Lisp (more precisely, the first-class extensiblity) is one of the main reasons to choose Emacs, and the onboarding experience is exactly what we're talking about. > I know, I should report it, but I find that macOS/Windows is considered a > second-platform here, and I didn't want to take my time writing reports j= ust > to get no feedback. I=E2=80=99ll try to report some today. macOS/Windows are considered second-class platforms, when it comes to features: features not available on free operating systems will not be available on non-free systems. macOS/Windows are not second-class platforms, when it comes to fixing bugs not present on free operating systems. > (TBF, I remember trying to report them, searching for duplicates, and > I saw some > bug report on the exact same issue I was experiencing. I didn=E2=80=99t k= now how to > subscribe, so I just thought that it might get fixed.) Hm, you can always M-x report-emacs-bug