From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Yoni Rabkin Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Write a new package" culture instead of patches? Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 11:22:47 -0400 Message-ID: <87v9ktb73s.fsf@rabkins.net> References: <83tv0e9x14.fsf@gnu.org> <83blml9u2t.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="98323"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.91 (gnu/linux) Cc: ndame@protonmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 18 17:23:34 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jahc5-000PTX-JU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 17:23:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37402 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jahc4-0004uy-LL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 11:23:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48718) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jahbP-0003kg-NZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 11:22:51 -0400 Original-Received: from smtprelay0077.hostedemail.com ([216.40.44.77]:52718 helo=smtprelay.hostedemail.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jahbO-00084P-Oe; Mon, 18 May 2020 11:22:51 -0400 Original-Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay07.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35D78181D3028; Mon, 18 May 2020 15:22:49 +0000 (UTC) X-Session-Marker: 796F6E69407261626B696E732E6E6574 X-HE-Tag: iron76_35a128a64e121 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 4488 Original-Received: from birch.rabkins.net (c-73-238-99-162.hsd1.nh.comcast.net [73.238.99.162]) (Authenticated sender: yoni@rabkins.net) by omf18.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 18 May 2020 15:22:48 +0000 (UTC) X-Ethics: Use GNU In-Reply-To: <83blml9u2t.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 18 May 2020 17:49:30 +0300") Received-SPF: none client-ip=216.40.44.77; envelope-from=yoni@rabkins.net; helo=smtprelay.hostedemail.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/18 11:22:49 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250761 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Philippe Vaucher >> Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 07:41:42 +0200 >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" >> >> That said, for those living on github/gitlab/etc compared to ELPA you >> feel at home... you just open issues, make pull requests & get >> answered there, you feel "welcome". On ELPA/emacs-devel you don't feel >> as welcome because of copyright assignments / subscribing to a mailing >> list / having to create patches and send an email, that plus usually >> the first answer you receive is that you did your commit message all >> wrong and that it follows complex rules in a tone that is more serious >> and "hard work" than what you get on MELPA. > > I think you make the MELPA rules sound easier, and our rules sound > harder, than they actually are. I suggest to scan the archives for > proposals to add new packages to ELPA, where you will see neither the > need to subscribe to this list, nor the need to create patches and > email them, nor "all wrong" responses with a certain "tone". At least > not in general. Rules can be a good thing. I'm the maintainer of GNU/Emms (a media player for Emacs). The people who distribute Emms on MELPA do a poor job of it (see below), and have never communicated with us, the Emms developers about it (not even once). I only discovered about it by chance recently when I went out to figure out what M/ELPA is, and how I can add Emms to ELPA. What the MEPLA people are doing that I don't like: * Never communicate with the developers of the Emms in any way. * Omit many files that come with Emms. * Associate Emms with several Emms extensions that live only on MELPA and that we, the Emms developers, have never heard about. This would give anyone accessing Emms via MELPA that those extensions are somehow a part of Emms, when they are not. Maybe those extensions are good, in which case I would love for the developers to contact us, the Emms developers. But Maybe those extensions are bad, don't work, are out of date, or connect with non-free services. * Not even linking to the Emms home page (https://www.gnu.org/software/emms/). Thought and effort goes into packaging each version Emms, and presenting Emms in the best way. It is a shame to see it ignored by this distribution system. Ideas for improvement: * Encourage people to speak to the developers of a project before packaging it. * Find a way of packaging a project as-is. For instance, Emms could be distributed as is, and the M/ELPA software could simply point at where Emms keeps its .el files for Emacs to find. This is instead of how I see ELPA working now, which is to force the software through a kind of a sieve (I think ELPA calls it a recipe) where only a select few files come out the other end. Emms doesn't need a recipe; it already comes organized and packaged for working with Emacs. It makes me think of taking bread, crumbling it up, the mushing those crumbs back together to re-form a new loaf of bread. -- "Cut your own wood and it will warm you twice"