From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: feature/icomplete-vertical Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2020 20:14:30 +0100 Message-ID: <87v9foeb8p.fsf@gmail.com> References: <838sd4z6lz.fsf@gnu.org> <20201001164804.mqqyxtet4ttweuyv@Ergus> <83blhhdy3w.fsf@gnu.org> <87d01xghmt.fsf@gmail.com> <83sgatc8er.fsf@gnu.org> <83mu11c78j.fsf@gnu.org> <87tuv9eygk.fsf@gmail.com> <87imbogb6k.fsf@gmail.com> <83eemcdgg2.fsf@gnu.org> <83d01wdf8p.fsf@gnu.org> <838sckdby8.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33781"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Gregory Heytings , spacibba@aol.com, juri@linkov.net, casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 05 21:17:22 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kPVz7-0008fk-Cq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 05 Oct 2020 21:17:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53714 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kPVz6-0006jq-A7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 05 Oct 2020 15:17:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49020) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kPVwU-0005ar-7B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Oct 2020 15:14:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x32b.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::32b]:33887) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kPVwS-0002LT-Hu; Mon, 05 Oct 2020 15:14:37 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x32b.google.com with SMTP id l15so647288wmh.1; Mon, 05 Oct 2020 12:14:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8yYm9Ag+lAm+zlLfohmHHPLBQIhx5fh7ZR1p2vNmC+k=; b=PEBj7YWOvSoFNU2hmDiA4An0dRYiIQsO/k+u9oNOER3r+s9ETMkG5qjqeHqTENSj8h htSVr6rDwiTnYu/fEBMUzgD7nIPgSSqKMXmhkUnJ8mFng6efw/IdraBAms0z+XaJT35s Tpp9ih+rISvNRjZTGvdt0ACMOIcpE1sGKo7YbbSq108xdUviSPUfIC4dJluFxdsIjcOp is8L7Ll72JKTya46qIe9YoOQe2V4j3Z76pVmv3pzLldiOfb5t48s7qRMzGaHGSd+Hi+/ iR/FKWOrvnIL0yjFLAsqtQJkgoJEBrmLTt/j31mfx8UJCslpeVn7lyNZmAEVOM4tQzNU cG2w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8yYm9Ag+lAm+zlLfohmHHPLBQIhx5fh7ZR1p2vNmC+k=; b=Q4lW2MGnZ1tNu2ceHPWl8D7MjfYf9SY1y1/nkcXCsUf6on6UlHEMARxaq6gz+krT+e Aw8dWCPXJYPmxJ5ITCaABuVL+XAz+NhjFD9BettoLOy6kkqz64pGH+1S8KUaElsPK5MQ yqoBcrA5H9h8t0TIJUsrE9FMCm7QTaMXLxVmeqzwlWrNP4n9d/BwB2oFkXG0vr9xrIei JQJ/73QdNNEkJaQMrwSZtxN/8cvQ1FTIDKI9OMpbONx5VABsc/xAGz4OzpTtZ/fjXYXo VNq8Y8acZk6bt6c/q3nB5y6jqSg3vnYs9/i9y7XPWSX70wb448auK6/qqV85Cj7ccz09 sVJg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5310kWmaJScDaMl+aTUavDS+FAQXmyFba2DJb22Dem8I/upcwxET 6w/ABGWnAF6FVn7RP6Y7Eyg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxPiuGSddXnlvz41JUCs3KfkS0yLWZIuDi6BBDjlOwyD1OQDwbV9oEjAz/O3Itppbmi85kMvA== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:544b:: with SMTP id p11mr900070wmi.46.1601925274648; Mon, 05 Oct 2020 12:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from krug ([89.180.149.37]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m14sm1081987wrx.62.2020.10.05.12.14.31 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 05 Oct 2020 12:14:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <838sckdby8.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 05 Oct 2020 16:44:31 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::32b; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x32b.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257139 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> You reject everything I propose with vague statements about >> "potential problems", without any detail or recipe that would help >> me or others to see whether these "potential problems" are real or >> minor ones. > > I'm not sure what detail I need to provide. Isn't it clear that using > a buffer-local variable doesn't resolve problems with using that same > buffer in another level of recursive-edit? Or that changing the > window-start position from under the feet of the display engine is > something that should be avoided? Why would you need examples to > realize that a design based on this cannot be clean, in the sense that > use cases where it causes trouble will eventually surface? I think can understand some of Gregory's frustration. If those problems are real, it should be possible to showcase them. Though that's not always easy to do, those examples could better illustrate where the fractures in Gregory's design are, and encourage him to undestand the problem and find alternatives. Or, as we often do, clearly document shortcomings and establish the specific application domain of a particular technique. I for one, wouldn't mind a fix that worked only in Emacs 28, so maybe some C-level handholding can be added. Jo=C3=A3o