unofficial mirror of emacs-devel@gnu.org 
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Matt Armstrong <matt@rfc20.org>
To: rms@gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: db48x@db48x.net, conao3@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca,
	emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Interpret #r"..." as a raw string
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2021 22:04:54 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87v9a4n7g9.fsf@mdeb> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1lIPFw-000171-9c@fencepost.gnu.org>

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>   > And in fact, the difference is not only visual, because the
>   > byte-compiler is allowed to treat such "literal" strings specially in
>   > some situations.
>
> I am not entirely sure what that refers to; I am sort-of guessing.
> The thing it is treating specially is a string in the expression being
> compiled, if I understand what you mean.
>
> This discussion is not about the facts of what happens, if I
> understand.  It's about the way to conceptualize them.
>
>   > Another reason is that many (most?) readers understand "literal
>   > string" in the sense of the above example, so it is a convenient way
>   > of making sure the reader understands what is being discussed.
>
> Yes and no.  Readers who know other languages will get an immediate
> understanding from "literal string".  But that understanding is not
> exactly the right understanding.  So we ought to correct it to get to
> the right understanding.

The place Eli was referring to, I believe, is this from (info
"(elisp)Equality Predicates"):

     The Emacs Lisp byte compiler may collapse identical literal
     objects, such as literal strings, into references to the same
     object, with the effect that the byte-compiled code will compare
     such objects as ‘eq’, while the interpreted version of the same
     code will not.  Therefore, your code should never rely on objects
     with the same literal contents being either ‘eq’ or not ‘eq’, it
     should instead use functions that compare object contents such as
     ‘equal’, described below.  Similarly, your code should not modify
     literal objects (e.g., put text properties on literal strings),
     since doing that might affect other literal objects of the same
     contents, if the byte compiler collapses them.

How might this paragraph be rephrased in a way that doesn't use the term
"literal", yet remains clear.

I think I follow this discussion, but I'm not at the point where I could
rewrite that paragraph myself.  I have too much ingrained understanding
of static programming languages and their literals and not enough
exposure to the way these concepts are described for Lisp languages.



  reply	other threads:[~2021-03-06  6:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 75+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-02-26 18:18 [PATCH] Interpret #r"..." as a raw string Naoya Yamashita
2021-02-26 18:27 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-26 18:53   ` Naoya Yamashita
2021-02-26 19:03     ` Drew Adams
2021-02-26 19:48     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-26 20:23       ` Naoya Yamashita
2021-02-26 20:34         ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-26 20:39           ` Naoya Yamashita
2021-02-26 20:45             ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-26 20:50               ` Naoya Yamashita
2021-02-26 20:54                 ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-26 20:03     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-26 20:34       ` Naoya Yamashita
2021-02-26 19:09 ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-26 20:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-27  0:39   ` Daniel Brooks
2021-02-27 16:14     ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-27 16:18       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-03-01  5:19         ` Richard Stallman
2021-03-02  5:45           ` Matt Armstrong
2021-03-03  5:53             ` Richard Stallman
2021-03-03  6:14               ` Daniel Brooks
2021-03-03  7:00               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-04  2:47                 ` Matt Armstrong
2021-03-04 13:49                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-04 16:55                     ` Matt Armstrong
2021-03-05  5:44                       ` Richard Stallman
2021-03-05  5:39                   ` Richard Stallman
2021-03-05  8:01                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-06  5:13                       ` Richard Stallman
2021-03-06  6:04                         ` Matt Armstrong [this message]
2021-03-07  6:13                           ` Richard Stallman
2021-03-07 17:20                             ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-03-06  8:27                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-06  9:51                           ` Daniel Brooks
2021-03-06 10:24                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-07  6:08                           ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-27 20:41       ` Daniel Brooks
2021-02-28  6:22 ` Zhu Zihao
2021-03-01  5:26   ` Richard Stallman
2021-03-01 12:06 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-01 12:13   ` Andreas Schwab
2021-03-02  5:59   ` Matt Armstrong
2021-03-02  9:56     ` Daniel Brooks
2021-03-02 10:13       ` Andreas Schwab
2021-03-02 10:55         ` Daniel Brooks
2021-03-02 11:18           ` Andreas Schwab
2021-03-02 11:26             ` Daniel Brooks
2021-03-02 11:14       ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-02 11:52         ` Daniel Brooks
2021-03-02 12:01     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-03-02 14:14       ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-02 14:32         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-03-02 15:06           ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-02 11:41 ` Aurélien Aptel
2021-03-02 13:49   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-03-02 14:46     ` Aurélien Aptel
2021-03-02 15:11       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-03-02 16:07         ` Aurélien Aptel
2021-03-03  7:31           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-03 16:02           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-03-02 20:36     ` Daniel Brooks
2021-03-03  0:27       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-03-03  0:42         ` Daniel Brooks
2021-03-03  8:16       ` Andreas Schwab
2021-03-03  9:25         ` Daniel Brooks
2021-03-03  9:29           ` Andreas Schwab
2021-03-03 10:02             ` Daniel Brooks
2021-03-03 10:11               ` Daniel Brooks
2021-03-03 10:14                 ` Andreas Schwab
2021-03-03 11:48                   ` Daniel Brooks
2021-03-03 10:12       ` Michael Albinus
2021-03-03 10:42         ` Daniel Brooks
2021-03-03 10:49           ` Michael Albinus
2021-03-03 16:12           ` Stefan Monnier

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=87v9a4n7g9.fsf@mdeb \
    --to=matt@rfc20.org \
    --cc=conao3@gmail.com \
    --cc=db48x@db48x.net \
    --cc=eliz@gnu.org \
    --cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
    --cc=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca \
    --cc=rms@gnu.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).