From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sean Whitton Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: cl-lib warnings Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2023 22:40:24 -0700 Message-ID: <87v8lkmd9z.fsf@melete.silentflame.com> References: <86o7s3lsnx.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86bknx8783.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <837cylapt4.fsf@gnu.org> <83wn6kamwr.fsf@gnu.org> <83len0aldq.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2990"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Juanma Barranquero , =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= , juri@linkov.net, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 06 06:41:39 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pDfU1-0000WB-Qo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 06 Jan 2023 06:41:39 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pDfTF-0004Ix-1x; Fri, 06 Jan 2023 00:40:50 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pDfT4-0004IT-FO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Jan 2023 00:40:38 -0500 Original-Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.24]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pDfSz-00058v-O3; Fri, 06 Jan 2023 00:40:37 -0500 Original-Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7239632008FD; Fri, 6 Jan 2023 00:40:26 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 06 Jan 2023 00:40:26 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=spwhitton.name; h=cc:cc:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender :subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; t=1672983626; x=1673070026; bh=yY u+y5MIltMa9TcMRv6lZWADJzGxCfpsuxLQdn0X1Rk=; b=S/nEiTyZxUJ+PpwM98 H7Dzf1ZKToGXoGbU8MPF12b2lpZeeU51z5pG8y88jXymyw+Zzz92IPG3VdJmhm09 dQIZwHSEnGs76M1fvNROANuy9sr7ouN92B6FBv+auYTF8uS1iX+IZNkgYvhoGaVF MMPsxMh7N6a2OUzNp1v6ESfQCrp+ZtwEORU0ZqEjxpBvxRdR8K9udzm91Fj5n1tU sw8oDZzU9q2eIadRZfkzsNTnu/A62Lh0+EMHDlV9rwr8BWDJVe4X/S/6BFdkXPyM u6ETZtCo8DgElQs1nPTYvW2RR8DHGFE4YYpl2Z9wLdkgA+l2NTiMIzZHpLC56DBL 4YHw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:date:date:feedback-id :feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to :x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm2; t=1672983626; x=1673070026; bh=yYu+y5MIltMa9TcMRv6lZWADJzGx CfpsuxLQdn0X1Rk=; b=AsiW6JDPWnCwQdZsaqI+weDJqY/jceVxLkwABOrbeA+L U4bZUSH+XECUyLKT45zXAOWR9jMtEr11sHisEj+2zeUEIvFE0Ik3dDyFOJapg3qc HrP+VBiOMhjU7PVQZ4CM/YBO2LTCTgSMNQppWv88rC0V6JRjYx5IDonMnnhJcMjj LmMaD6tcozmX3ozSAS+WBZRJrcRme2yI/L/ROXcL7hT1lPAI5318JeGA0xisnu6D Gx8f+m0HBdnCH6Bmk7zbWMglGU7y69ef2EvUqVSZdUCjeGWKb115njk3btHZeOGX F6sARoxQo298WiSmfCKXrQtQlwP0B9QgeSCYLqlWAw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvhedrjeelgdekkecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpefhvfevufgjfhffkfgfgggtsehttddttddtredtnecuhfhrohhmpefuvggrnhcu hghhihhtthhonhcuoehsphifhhhithhtohhnsehsphifhhhithhtohhnrdhnrghmvgeqne cuggftrfgrthhtvghrnheptdffvdffueeluedvteekvdevhefghedvgeevgffhvedukeeg geelveegjeekteeknecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilh hfrhhomhepshhpfihhihhtthhonhesshhpfihhihhtthhonhdrnhgrmhgv X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i23c04076:Fastmail Original-Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Fri, 6 Jan 2023 00:40:25 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: by melete.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2219A7E3CEF; Thu, 5 Jan 2023 22:40:24 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: (Juanma Barranquero's message of "Wed, 21 Dec 2022 15:50:52 +0100") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.147.123.24; envelope-from=spwhitton@spwhitton.name; helo=wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:302243 Archived-At: Hello, On Wed 21 Dec 2022 at 03:50PM +01, Juanma Barranquero wrote: > On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 3:22 PM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> Our policy and practice was since long ago that any package which is >> always or almost always loaded at startup without any user say-so, >> should be preloaded, since not doing that makes very little sense. > > We don't have precise metrics for "always or almost always loaded at startup", > I think. > > But cl-lib is unconditionally required by 191 files under lisp/, right > now. Including things like desktop, help-fns, help-mode, kmacro, > imenu, tab-line and package, among many others. And of course vc, > Calc and Org. And use-package, which will perhaps become the de facto > way to customize their .emacs for many people. Eli's the only person who's expressed concern about preloading cl-lib, but I don't believe he's responded to Juanma's statistics here. Eli, what do you think about this argument that cl-lib meets the criteria you stated? -- Sean Whitton