From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2023 11:11:40 +0000 Message-ID: <87v8cmnspf.fsf@localhost> References: <83msyemjx8.fsf@gnu.org> <871qfpoij6.fsf@gnu.org> <87fs45ivyo.fsf@localhost> <87h6okga15.fsf@localhost> <87cyz61cbp.fsf@localhost> <87v8cuqtkr.fsf@localhost> <87sf7rsfpd.fsf@localhost> <8334zr32ih.fsf@gnu.org> <87edjbsc8k.fsf@localhost> <83r0nb1mb1.fsf@gnu.org> <871qfbsaju.fsf@localhost> <83pm2v1fyw.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1hjqnzq.fsf@localhost> <83fs3r1crm.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28019"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 07 13:11:52 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qeCvQ-00073e-2p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 13:11:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qeCuc-00033j-Kk; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 07:11:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qeCuX-000339-LK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 07:10:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qeCuS-0005Yw-AB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 07:10:56 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 166B4240029 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2023 13:10:50 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1694085050; bh=NFaiQndpDhW6QzSDsafpALr2ARtsnoiN2UNm0JKi9+w=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:From; b=hnOpBksDomnFV4PV55zTaF69m9NUF+Zhj4nzK6cYTGoiKEYODqEmDVZXULFOKzwyx lRHZh807QyiSb6ZL6s+zoAfu1mCjUcOYFatF+Uqyr6jOsh1TNhvZb7aNL0cHP8bS5O 05CmWzMrJGPVbwjgEKQteoFFz4sdTLyHNpBjStNhQebZBxshALga13p3XHJ5xEIq7k UST2s43XHtG63AkICL+i6vOtVtKeF/0hjhJlwMKVunYfp98ESF/xX0Z1KbsmlO6vJ1 MYv8LZVlUpXLJLNyrSAGOB1hoSLaEFf6CjbCKKcU7UmOziNraIeq4ZPRXaJoKKcvDt LJHzkt8VbOKQQ== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4RhGkd4YqCz6tvJ; Thu, 7 Sep 2023 13:10:49 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <83fs3r1crm.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310258 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> There is a single word "directives" in >> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/texinfo.git/plain/NEWS: >> >> . #line directives are recognized. > > Look for changes whose heading is "Language:". I did, and in many cases Texinfo added things that are already available in Org. Otherwise, these changes are not really that frequent. I do not see much problem catching up. >> I understand. However, new features are added to Texinfo for a reason. >> If the same reason is valid for Org, equivalent features may be added. > > The reason why features are added to Texinfo is that those features > are useful for writing software documentation. After all, this is the > main purpose of Texinfo. So I cannot see how the same reasons could > not be valid for Org -- assuming that Org wants to support writing > software documentation, not just the Emacs manuals in their current > form. Org is different from Texinfo and certain things that are impossible with Texinfo and require changing grammar are trivial in Org without upstream changes. I really do not see the raised problem as real problem. To clarify, my stance on this idea with better support for authoring software manuals is to be done in several stages: [ we are at this point now ] 1. Provide basic programmable constructs on Org syntax level. This is generally useful and should be done anyway for various reasons. 2. Use the programmable constructs as a basis for an optional library that will allow software manual-specific markup in Org, aiming for an equivalence of export output. This can be useful, at least, for people using Org to write README files. [ here, we may re-consider the whole idea and see if we should move further ] 3. Look into fine-tuning commands provided by Texinfo (like formatting and layout control) and see if they can (or should) be integrated into Org. [ the problem you describe is to be considered seriously here, and I do not see why it should be the show stopper ] 4. Look if people are interested to switch from Texinfo to Org. 5. Look about maintaining parity between Texinfo and Org. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at