From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Shrinking the C core Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2023 13:30:05 +0800 Message-ID: <87v8cmft42.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <87ledwx7sh.fsf@yahoo.com> <877cpfybhf.fsf@yahoo.com> <873503y66i.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30820"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Arthur Miller , Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 07 07:31:14 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qe7bm-0007oE-3h for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 07:31:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qe7b2-0002fM-17; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 01:30:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qe7az-0002Uj-Eg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 01:30:25 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic306-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.189.82]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qe7aw-0004NK-Ow for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 01:30:25 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1694064620; bh=zVZ8y9/HzeBmEJMdqD45iqlbZgWtLU/Bw8LJj8OewIs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=TFIEwk1x11QghObvdjHBzXgdU63cE04C3YdoCYKFQQ3VF65sD9G8wZPAkzo1Fgvjm7Lf7TcbO5JOr08nPYB2N523vbvBBPP8BUBsj+C8c124TAymJ47DnifwghgpGTzw/1pnfxFg65U7AdG79ux8qGJjuj0+PoJ3qbkza+FlZrSBx6I2YV2xIhcxSfT9TMMnEPVzgGlOpnBBSePXz8tw2/OmqCCPKcDyfRzkIIxbPnlH2pxLneu+isA7pk+mgUJr1aMg6fQZ9Le8kP9uxzpkqv1YcTyXDDfW0EEX1qpCND1dRscwyitYar7IBcp32ZsGQaNEZtoa3UOT2nIH7e8TVg== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1694064620; bh=xm5oCe2F9IU/dE9T1mFfXDDJ0VkTdgYPkty4LSvgK65=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=tEW8KG7llfnYL5LXeRZCn9qlB3+yfhaH3UhA+ctKiVULMQ8qxX1a2neJtHgtTfF4IJDFE2h2WpE+cXFmHQR6nbNazYXfNO07HNrJiOpPRitGvp4NAnQY9eWaiVeylv2rLGErgdTIFFVkYhRi5IXSvbj8O4Whk0zsPujHIaEbbjVdHdWyzurACuoAEcd30tmpn3nqHUMZwwg3QzxrGmfrNREeyiDSl/aHu/dRocL6SkKR0/FTmU70bkEdim505LUO8S/SAdiQk0g8P+sxsxntFqSrcXo01LKtSYG26ubpkWCdT3OIUBpnWGHCdYMECZ1LfXAWmHClS/4En4dTjxvOww== X-YMail-OSG: COb7wlIVM1nr6DCDw0UjkZzv64KqJ_jNxxcg.ngFCflviaFJviHEolzwpX._1zj 9zm_GcWrRcSJ7jA2FOy2GODKVSV4uBCVfw2hCrTdDftqdwwmDxp3v4HJ1XH_g1ntuP_R0OqDy4CU 9H207.wdJzzctabP9I2pimGji641ClNQp9W3YntrMxqB2.qPhynErVk5YfkqQOMtxUwacmHQ.ZqH bP8reAa1rVRIgrVxE7fSqtOBUOdNoXgtPbbJzbINL6GB7pLg4XmQYfMT9NzuUrf.THKmNLZdJmKM xDBCeKne2xmvgB9NtA3IEJIUVC1vywpfOWPjCFIRbHIdR_v8eaFAY9H3LOlQ1KAhKb2T6d_FxtCR 1O.WarSNdfzLGA1fM6kWkzeo_FfyHzz0OIS0wgsr8OokMjmhSnWCYAAjw.UXSOWpxUyyXuhqVD7R p.LoWqCmkVXMcUBYoZYqCoWlggHCa7OV.sG5k31gKhH7GNquKIZNGu2tVj8QTOVhxhSrw8Alqwvy WvHyC1o2iKoNYDvPSLxVrnOvWqHBzj.hteGmvKLFmI6mbd7apKwqoke5VLv46AMfe0CwgGqvY22K pBMRIFybiFLmYYeMjuWgh56OMvvzIq3wlvQujJVLuYxLY6O9A3vufyC6VeXIGd9CjfeXaOfI.DjG 5JtA42C2KXuUbDJUypr6xjmYdyt5s3uTHbZIGmde5Ss.bgLHtUMXvNyCano1hp2vfu8c3kYOPce. tWzVGAvln2_OFZCZqjIDaaNm9j9_ErF10WwU1lLA8ZOest6CmReC8l2m7cYzKqIrEXeskJXk44dI lSQJKCgDu7iJuQ2zQjE5NTemVtpnmp2VVaD_LP9pUf X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 7837c4fa-1214-4b52-8d9f-4a923cac4eeb Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic306.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 7 Sep 2023 05:30:20 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-69654d8bd-sbrjf (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID f228a4cb4bae039d4788e39eff4e9f90; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 05:30:15 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Wed, 6 Sep 2023 11:29:11 +0000") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21763 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.189.82; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic306-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310234 Archived-At: Alan Mackenzie writes: > Yes. There was a time not so long ago when cl.el was banned from use in > our Lisp code, except for at compile time. Our Emacs Lisp was small, > simple to understand, and easy to learn. Now things in cl-lib.el get > used as if they are just a normal part of Emacs Lisp. Our language is > thus MUCH more difficult to understand, perhaps by a factor of somewhere > between 3 and 10. When perusing even established parts of Emacs I groan > inwardly every time I encounter one of these needless cl-lib features. > It stops me dead, forcing me to consult doc strings (which are often > missing and often inadequate even when they are present) or even manuals. I agree. The use of generic functions for window system initialization irks me to no end.