C-h and TUTORIAL

C-h and TUTORIAL

[Werner LEMBERG]

I suggest to add a new key binding, `C-h T', which should be equal to
`C-u C-h t'.  In case a new user hasn't set up a proper language
environment, it is hard to find a language-specific version of the
TUTORIAL file.


    Werner

Re: C-h and TUTORIAL

[Richard Stallman]

    I suggest to add a new key binding, `C-h T', which should be equal to
    `C-u C-h t'.  In case a new user hasn't set up a proper language
    environment, it is hard to find a language-specific version of the
    TUTORIAL file.

Is C-h T really that much easier than C-u C-h t?
I don't see the great improvement.

Re: C-h and TUTORIAL

[Alan Shutko]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> Is C-h T really that much easier than C-u C-h t?
> I don't see the great improvement.

C-h T can show up in the C-h C-h menu, advertising the existence of
language-specific tutorials.  C-u C-h t is less obvious.

-- 
Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> - I am the rocks.

Re: C-h and TUTORIAL

[Werner LEMBERG]

From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: C-h and TUTORIAL
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 14:18:12 -0400

>     I suggest to add a new key binding, `C-h T', which should be
>     equal to `C-u C-h t'.  In case a new user hasn't set up a proper
>     language environment, it is hard to find a language-specific
>     version of the TUTORIAL file.
> 
> Is C-h T really that much easier than C-u C-h t?
> I don't see the great improvement.

The very problem is that a new user doesn't know about the `C-u'
prefix argument to the `F1' key.  You have to look up the
documentation of `help-with-tutorial' to find out that a prefix
argument exists, and this is non-intuitive IMHO.  And once you've
typed `C-h ?' or `F1 ?' to find out about the help details, it is too
late to pass a prefix argument too (additionally, it isn't mentioned
in the help screen).


    Werner

Re: C-h and TUTORIAL

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

>>>>> "Werner" == Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org> writes:

    >> Is C-h T really that much easier than C-u C-h t?  I don't see
    >> the great improvement.

    Werner> The very problem is that a new user doesn't know about the
    Werner> `C-u' prefix argument to the `F1' key.

Why not abolish the language-selection binding, take the default
argument for `help-with-tutorial' from

(or (getenv "LC_MESSAGES" ) (getenv "LANG") "en")

and put

"If you'd like to study this TUTORIAL in a different language, click
here".

near the beginning of the TUTORIAL.  Later, when somebody's got some
time, they can set up a toolbar with a flag (or flags, for
multinational languages) for each language, and you can get rid of the
ugly hyperlink.  (Conditional on toolbars enabled, of course.)

-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.

Re: C-h and TUTORIAL

[Richard Stallman]

    C-h T can show up in the C-h C-h menu, advertising the existence of
    language-specific tutorials.  C-u C-h t is less obvious.

I see.  However, perhaps we should just make C-h t
always ask for which language.  This would help non-English-speakers
even more, while the inconvenience to English-speakers would be
small (since regular users don't frequently run the tutorial).
Does anyone see a difficulty with this idea?

Re: C-h and TUTORIAL

[David Kastrup]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>     C-h T can show up in the C-h C-h menu, advertising the existence of
>     language-specific tutorials.  C-u C-h t is less obvious.
> 
> I see.  However, perhaps we should just make C-h t
> always ask for which language.  This would help non-English-speakers
> even more, while the inconvenience to English-speakers would be
> small (since regular users don't frequently run the tutorial).
> Does anyone see a difficulty with this idea?

That the user has not yet learnt at this point of time how to select
an item from a list in the command line?

However, I don't think that the tutorial has anything to say about
that, so it is probably pretty much the same whether the user gets
baffled with it before or after perusing the tutorial.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: C-h and TUTORIAL

[Richard Stallman]

    Why not abolish the language-selection binding, take the default
    argument for `help-with-tutorial' from

    (or (getenv "LC_MESSAGES" ) (getenv "LANG") "en")

    and put

    "If you'd like to study this TUTORIAL in a different language, click
    here".

    near the beginning of the TUTORIAL.

Those both seem like good ideas.  The second one may have difficulty
on some terminals where there isn't room to add any text, but it would
be ok if limited to when the screen is more than 27 lines.

Re: C-h and TUTORIAL

[Miles Bader]

"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org> writes:
> Why not abolish the language-selection binding, take the default
> argument for `help-with-tutorial' from
>
> (or (getenv "LC_MESSAGES" ) (getenv "LANG") "en")

It already seems to choose the default tutorial based on language
(I guess based on the current language-environment).

-Miles
-- 
Any man who is a triangle, has thee right, when in Cartesian Space, to
have angles, which when summed, come to know more, nor no less, than
nine score degrees, should he so wish.  [TEMPLE OV THEE LEMUR]