From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Opportunistic STARTTLS in smtpmail.el Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 21:04:40 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <87tycamhmv.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <8762ptue8r.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87k4e8ucw3.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87liyofwxp.fsf@lifelogs.com> <874o5cfui5.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87liyndz5l.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87y61nnpoq.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87fwnuacc5.fsf@lifelogs.com> <878vtmo081.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1306893922 2629 80.91.229.12 (1 Jun 2011 02:05:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 02:05:22 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 01 04:05:19 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QRaoA-0007e7-Oc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 01 Jun 2011 04:05:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46466 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QRao9-0007px-QT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 31 May 2011 22:05:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:54135) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QRanp-0007pU-0g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 31 May 2011 22:04:57 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QRann-0002ic-CP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 31 May 2011 22:04:56 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:38715) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QRanm-0002iT-MQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 31 May 2011 22:04:55 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QRanl-0007Y9-6A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Jun 2011 04:04:53 +0200 Original-Received: from c-67-186-102-106.hsd1.il.comcast.net ([67.186.102.106]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 01 Jun 2011 04:04:53 +0200 Original-Received: from tzz by c-67-186-102-106.hsd1.il.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 01 Jun 2011 04:04:53 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 30 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-67-186-102-106.hsd1.il.comcast.net X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:gTAQm8AcexxvGExdauXkelVCpe0= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:140010 Archived-At: On Tue, 31 May 2011 22:29:51 -0300 Stefan Monnier wrote: >> (Just to be clear: my proposed format is >> "login joe password gpg:ABCD123456" where the gpg: data decodes to >> ((data "mysecret") (salt "mysalt")) and no other values besides the >> data are used outside; a gpg: value can only yield one piece of >> data and only needs to be decoded when you need the actual data.) SM> I have a question about this: does the Gnome keychain tool (as well as SM> comparable tools for other systems) offer the possibility to know if SM> a password exists without having first granted access to that SM> password? Yes, you can usually search without retrieving the secret. But why does it matter what the Gnome tools do? The netrc format is not connected to the Secrets API or any other keychain-style backends at all. SM> If not, then we will need an smtpmail-use-auth variable anyway, so the SM> above gymnastic will be unnecessary. I think it's necessary no matter what. We've had several suggestions (from me, Lars, and Daiki Ueno) for something like what I'm proposing. It's definitely useful. Speaking of which, I think in addition to gpg: tokens we should support crypt: tokens (using the native OS crypt call) and MD4 or some other symmetric cipher simple enough to implement in ELisp. GPG is not necessarily available or wanted. Ted