From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: jens.k.loewe@googlemail.com (Jens K. Loewe) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: New maintainer Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2015 01:55:08 +0200 Message-ID: <87twq6mboj.fsf@googlemail.com> References: <560CCEBA.9080607@online.de> <874miapdhs.fsf@openmailbox.org> <8737xuuw2y.fsf@rabkins.net> <87lhbmkrle.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87si5r22qh.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <8737xrweel.fsf@googlemail.com> <87r3lazla7.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87bnce1ko7.fsf@googlemail.com> <87mvvyz5a8.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87si5qi7zi.fsf@googlemail.com> <87io6mz0en.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1444002953 5719 80.91.229.3 (4 Oct 2015 23:55:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 23:55:53 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 05 01:55:40 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Zit80-0007vC-Iq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 05 Oct 2015 01:55:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43918 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zit7z-0002Fr-Ry for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 04 Oct 2015 19:55:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56799) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zit7n-0002Fd-5E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 04 Oct 2015 19:55:28 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zit7i-0007m2-1a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 04 Oct 2015 19:55:27 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:57073) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zit7h-0007ke-Qa for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 04 Oct 2015 19:55:21 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Zit7f-0007Zg-DY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Oct 2015 01:55:19 +0200 Original-Received: from p4fe285c2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([79.226.133.194]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 05 Oct 2015 01:55:19 +0200 Original-Received: from jens.k.loewe by p4fe285c2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 05 Oct 2015 01:55:19 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 71 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: p4fe285c2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (windows-nt) Cancel-Lock: sha1:AZ1dcwoFjJ4Y+E99nUZtcbcLoAs= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:190914 Archived-At: David Kastrup schrob am 05. Okt. 2015 um 01:20 Uhr dies: > Nonsense. They can just level their corner. They have a loyal fanbase though. (Don't take this word too seriously please.) > You obviously have an agenda from which you don't want to get > deterred. My so-called "agenda" is to try to understand what I /might/ have got wrong in order to be able to keep up with the discussions. I just don't consider something -- not even "this or that is freedom" -- to be right just because someone said so. Sorry. > a GNU project maintainer is expected to keep projects in a state where > the GPL is effective in ensuring software freedom. Which, again, is OK and perfectly understandable for me. > You might have missed it, but Windows 10 goes ahead nevertheless. So > far testers have not been able to find any settings that would not > send a continuous string of data related to keypresses to Microsoft > servers. Yes, I have missed that yet. Thank you. > Perfect means that there is nothing wrong with it for you, so "do not > care about freedom one bit" seems to be a pretty good description. This is the difference between using a computer as a tool and using a computer as a church again. I know that Windows does not let me have all the freedom I could want to (this is one of the reasons why I own other machines with other operating systems too), it's just that I, sometimes, don't need to have (e.g.) a way to patch my Windows kernel. Sometimes I just want to use it as it was meant to be used. I'd happily drop Windows when someone invents a free operating system which provides adequate alternatives to the proprietary software I use. > I don't condemn you. I state that you don't care for freedom one bit. > And you state that perfection for you does not involve freedom. And > that people for which this is different are using their computer as a > church. Which presumably is something bad. Well, yes. A computer is a tool to me, like a hammer is a tool. I use a hammer to drive a nail into the wall, I use a computer to communicate with people (in a couple of ways, admittedly). When I need something to drive a nail into a wall, it does not matter much to me if I can replace its head with a different head as long as it gets its task done. It's still wrong that I don't care for freedom, I'm just skeptical about enforcing freedom as /enforcing/ is quite the opposite of /freeing/. But, again, that does not mean that I come with the "wrong mind". My personal choice of software is a result of my freedom to choose, and you won't ever see my advocating a closed system unless for a very good reason. > But you do understand that you have to leave that preference at home > when you agree to organize a vegetarian fair or you'll be the wrong > person for the job? Yes, of course. I never said I wouldn't. However, as of now, I'm here as a non-representative user, so everything I write is not a part of a job. If a job involved advocating the GPL, I'd follow the rules. JKL -- I could contain traces of nuts.