From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ricardo Wurmus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2020 12:14:29 +0200 Message-ID: <87tuw9dhbu.fsf@elephly.net> References: <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq.ref@Ergus> <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq@Ergus> <83lfhnnew7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200906163418.3p2wuygb4osm76wa@Ergus> <20200906203807.u237c3h22oxwtmba@Ergus> <87wo16c77t.fsf@elephly.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5714"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.4.13; emacs 27.1 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 07 12:14:17 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kFEAD-0001Mc-3O for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 12:14:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51184 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFEAC-0007mp-55 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 06:14:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46716) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFE9K-0006a9-Lw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 06:13:22 -0400 Original-Received: from sender4-of-o51.zoho.com ([136.143.188.51]:21181) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFE9I-00011C-HT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 06:13:22 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1599473598; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=cn5RucWb4vb+sooZwyldcODtm/mJtmhncBUUNmnUFJ12r5PMrxmFacoecgCdZvz9QQ9n05iVYZ4m6i+tYZkERb9MZmXbxyyMgLrZNWp1PuCIFjIw29z4e5o5FI7feECtSyAIyancoIx4ioCSOCHOd+jpjfQB7G3xZqnhm1z3csE= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1599473598; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To; bh=p3aGzqs1pYiioPOC51g5BTgvvG+q6lNQOyechk4Ra70=; b=FC8J1ZsQzuvEJ3xUP9eesutd0vcQpdrizHWPXr9fYthlTDw7q4wksr7pkHNERw1LjODMu6cuswAMw6K/VVkgY6coLthVeAyKI9DCgcI65q5GHB27bHwB9FcuVlZ4WvvJfuWxaqE/Qz/2iCBUywCu7b869MNZxCcvquo9EYGNuqw= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; dkim=pass header.i=elephly.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rekado@elephly.net; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1599473598; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@elephly.net; h=References:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-reply-to:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; bh=p3aGzqs1pYiioPOC51g5BTgvvG+q6lNQOyechk4Ra70=; b=EpgtfUVubA6Y7bZwkPeAdFTkzhKhlvDpWj1nzLKM4JrFjxXxIc0hkitBzgf/SzH2 qVFfZ4BeDQ8X4kKDFKFGj+lzVoqdrDqyCOY2fJo3cDnRTPLN7B4S+I7HDlEXsJP7ggF neBPt23rLPCsBhFGz3RlMtMzSHwzj63Uh54umcsY= Original-Received: from localhost (p54ad4c4f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.173.76.79]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1599473597260394.17967464473304; Mon, 7 Sep 2020 03:13:17 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: X-URL: https://elephly.net X-PGP-Key: https://elephly.net/rekado.pubkey X-PGP-Fingerprint: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6 2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC X-ZohoMailClient: External Received-SPF: pass client-ip=136.143.188.51; envelope-from=rekado@elephly.net; helo=sender4-of-o51.zoho.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/07 04:37:05 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254623 Archived-At: Gregory Heytings writes: >>> I'd like to see some of these studies. "Dark mode" goes against >>> what so many people have been doing for centuries (think of books >>> for example) that I'm really curious to see why they were wrong. >> >> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-28904-x >> >> =E2=80=9CWe found that reading dark text on bright background reduces >> choroidal thickness in one hour, while reading bright text on dark >> background increases the thickness of the choroid. Since choroidal >> thickness changes are precursors for future changes in eye growth, >> we expect that there will be selective effects on subsequent myopia >> development.=E2=80=9D >> > > Okay, so according to these authors, in essence "light mode" might > perhaps in the long term lead to more myopia. No, the choroid became significantly thicker after *one* hour of reading white text on black, and significantly thinner after *one* hour of reading black text on white. Choroid thickness is known to be a significant factor in myopia. The open questions include a description of the exact mechanism leading to this observable effect and identification of whether it is (lack or presence of) ON or OFF stimulation that has the effect. The effect itself is not in question. > In short, that's already an interesting indication, but I'll wait to > see (much) more studies like this before being convinced. That=E2=80=99s fine. I don=E2=80=99t think the topic is black and white (h= ah) anyway, so I don=E2=80=99t aim to convince or be convinced myself. There are simply different metrics on which light and dark mode score differently well or poorly, so I don=E2=80=99t expect there to be a clear winner either way. I= t=E2=80=99s a value judgement and finding a personal compromise, weighing eye strain, readability, short-term and long-term changes to the eyes, etc. We shouldn=E2=80=99t pretend that there=E2=80=99s one best way for everyone= . The most eye-saving way forward is clearly not to read at all, but we don=E2=80=99t recommend using emacspeak instead of displaying text =E2=80=94 though in all seriousness, perhaps there should be a simple accessibility menu to enable or disable emacspeak, to select dark or light mode, to set the text contrast (similar to how the solarized theme grades colours on an adjustable contrast curve), etc. --=20 Ricardo