From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin_Le_Gouguec?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Following etc/NEWS on the development branch (was: Confused by y-or-n-p) Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2021 15:06:15 +0100 Message-ID: <87turqcii0.fsf_-_@gmail.com> References: <834kkcr1eo.fsf@gnu.org> <83czyvkts6.fsf@gnu.org> <87bleetirr.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87y2hhri3n.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83pn2tkfg8.fsf@gnu.org> <871rf7ippu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83a6trg6mc.fsf@gnu.org> <83mtxqcauz.fsf@gnu.org> <83turva0y2.fsf@gnu.org> <83ft3aik79.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="29534"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: rms@gnu.org, juri@linkov.net, rudalics@gmx.at, stefankangas@gmail.com, ghe@sdf.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 09 15:08:08 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kyEuW-0007b4-BH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 09 Jan 2021 15:08:08 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46288 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kyEuV-0003Zu-CK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 09 Jan 2021 09:08:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38382) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kyEsp-0002hY-OZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jan 2021 09:06:25 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x332.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::332]:54537) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kyEsm-0005eH-CX; Sat, 09 Jan 2021 09:06:23 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x332.google.com with SMTP id c133so10038652wme.4; Sat, 09 Jan 2021 06:06:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=VyWikWT+Fiy6+MmwtcfetDFa0If57aPNgUKOXWwozoo=; b=iBa7vFuglGYk82w8Fji8YDUqWn9SRckbY1ZdSmVCbNoEhA1oNdf/HUUTTdvXMKUAjW FpGOcZAquGJMTROxbgwVBvUYWpGwy0VyfkDAxfcui7fCJrU42yC/HG4ZX+Vlbx9YL3fj lgnsdSwXfelrWJsvpoyzNlzYWqyDKXQNMsx0Q5zhijHVydjdrOM4GZvWY1plIWOsSRWP +FQZp8Hzr8sWYnhYYx0lLnJfQnTtIT2tVpUmkqQfN93SRjLU7Yq436xqXsILHTS6xQO3 6LLD2t9cjymv0UAFprH81hlW98Ikj7eOT5uF83nJ2gtWSvUdk6NaAIroYNDOC+V+wkIt xD5Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=VyWikWT+Fiy6+MmwtcfetDFa0If57aPNgUKOXWwozoo=; b=Nt8Gz7S2nDj3hKfDNH7bxwQ9se3RFknZkEs/sv6vFJOLs1SRI03nWw4wuzWYHTOw0o hrrA2+Ci2/RIGPeUrQzFrCjxGV5bYhGcfPqlkFmVjCSDmW0M3fTX9tn82ZIa58RCqHNB cd5EuRD5BMt3m0BAqcUKYqvTvEM5GNaSCmdNLE84CKIzl4knUJ+0JOaaJP4x8yljUJd6 iAkl2uQmXfdQjhzrp6TU1qJr1veQVMXwd1F/84DhDpgomjm/7/SHeyoPrV1gD8zMpfCh n9ryB+QRss/6d7twAa6DPBek10wRwskcbdndSlVJ7q4O4mq2ZrLurJZczQC6khv4VVI3 UtFA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532Woex5AuuO7kbf4jjndJExv6uz8e6sRMHCNIUKF64K+SokInS+ pquj9XBOOAfa5r4dDmj9cmw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxlY4r1/RMih8crJiboAfaBfDiNfuUxXmyeVkpbphT55XNBEkYp7201ibARwB4gZnu1XtOSLA== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:67c5:: with SMTP id b188mr7467424wmc.147.1610201177248; Sat, 09 Jan 2021 06:06:17 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from my-little-tumbleweed ([2a01:e0a:20e:d340:922b:34ff:fe95:9aed]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q15sm16662082wrw.75.2021.01.09.06.06.16 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 09 Jan 2021 06:06:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83ft3aik79.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 09 Jan 2021 10:32:58 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::332; envelope-from=kevin.legouguec@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x332.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:262801 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Richard Stallman >> Cc: ghe@sdf.org, juri@linkov.net, rudalics@gmx.at, >> monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, eliz@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2021 01:34:32 -0500 >>=20 >> I think I was the first person to complain about it. An entry in >> etc/NEWS would probably not have come to my attention, since I don't >> check it regularly. But a posting on emacs-devel is something I would >> have noticed. > > Reading NEWS each time one updates from the development branch of the > repository is something we expect from every user. I suggest to start > reading it when you build a new development version FWIW, after pulling changes, one can ask Git "What changed in NEWS since my last update?" like so: git diff @{1} etc/NEWS "@{1}" means "the previous value of the current branch" (cf. gitrevisions(7)). While I personally spend a few minutes reading every commit after fetching[1], I wouldn't fault anyone for not watching etc/NEWS conscientiously. All the ways I can think of[2] (that do not involve fiddling with Git) fail to limit their output to my last update, so they are not as user-friendly as ticking messages off a mailing list. A list like emacs-diffs focusing on etc/NEWS would make sense to me; it would be lower-volume than either bug-gnu-emacs or emacs-devel, so it would be harder for readers to miss (documented) user-facing changes. And such a list would expose those changes once they have taken a concrete form (committed patches, applied and ready to be tried out); this is easier to pick apart than week-long exchanges of dozens of messages, featuring half as many versions of one (or more) patch(es), all of them possibly dismissed because of unevocative subject lines. NB: these are just ideas to make user-facing changes more visible for people tracking the development branch; they are orthogonal to Gregory's tentative guideline of considering new user settings for every change worth mentioning in NEWS, to allow users to opt out of new features. [1] With some amount of arbitrary filtering, e.g. - Is there a bug ID? =E2=87=92 skim (probably saw it on bug-gnu-emacs) - Does the title refer to platforms/packages I don't care about? =E2=87=92 skim (maybe some nice coding tricks to glean from the dif= f) - Does the message contain a non-ChangeLog summary? =E2=87=92 read it (less noisy than ChangeLog entries IMO) - Does the commit have NEWS entries? =E2=87=92 read them (to learn about new knobs to tweak) - Does the commit touch on areas of personal interest? =E2=87=92 read the diff [2] C-x p f etc/NEWS RET C-x v l https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/log/etc/NEWS