From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Suggested experimental test Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 13:28:19 +0100 Message-ID: <87tup26om4.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87mtuxj8ue.fsf@gnus.org> <9088e12cb3de3d30abf1@heytings.org> <8735wnjsum.fsf@gnus.org> <83sg4n9jei.fsf@gnu.org> <87y2efhx3e.fsf@gnus.org> <838s6f9g5d.fsf@gnu.org> <87y2efgg3w.fsf@gnus.org> <878s6fgdzu.fsf@gnus.org> <19c1ec9e-a97f-a8ab-b966-edadbc299c39@yandex.ru> <83mtuu8gdz.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="19573"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: Jean Louis , emacs-devel@gnu.org, gregory@heytings.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, dgutov@yandex.ru, larsi@gnus.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 23 13:29:57 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lOgAX-0004yS-Hy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 13:29:57 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50800 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOgAW-0003jM-IQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 08:29:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42120) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOg94-0001sX-TX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 08:28:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:35443) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOg92-0005sS-P8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 08:28:26 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 518EA2400FE for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 13:28:22 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1616502502; bh=1vUUtl2xvcf7qWHRTMKzyf1X5W2OQi31Jwj9NZdgup0=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=MNLkc7NaKJ2NM65DihvreDsoapOb6dL8HCdTntWLpnmhSjgS9rB0k+8ILaD4ocVXC noKziegJiFC31kH+3IFLd7AuE/rqtJLeD1xQi2yfHko3Wh4tOayJY9YhiZNyBSFJ6u 1yNuUJGmjPUCbUo7N7TK211Vjvi9IB3FulyICvxxl6yfyyTiTg09nGM5D6B1z6AfaE 5LdWsQofEwpIWhXAH7w7TFh+RX0s6/oW5qFsxZCufpBJ/8558WD1+qlEITT0Izbdgh qFJ36Nf1L42DeTSrAHxO0WSFFkyAr5GL1Zu/K0kRuqdRZdZQcWzR6AM9qeVPMFFbAl GcaHRkD1PWTiw== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4F4VyX5NMRz6tm6; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 13:28:20 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <83mtuu8gdz.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 23 Mar 2021 09:43:04 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:266868 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 08:22:19 +0300 >> From: Jean Louis >> Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , gregory@heytings.org, >> Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Kangas , >> emacs-devel@gnu.org >> >> That way experiments go in parallel not disturbing the default key >> bindings and users aware or willing to participate may do so. > > That just delays the dispute to the point when we want to consider > making some of the bindings the default. So it basically may solve a > secondary problem -- how to conduct the experiment -- but not the main > problem, which is whether and how to change bindings that existed in > Emacs since about forever. Forgive me for asking, maybe I'm missing something, but why should the changes be made default? Isn't the idea of providing a theme to change the behaviour that users can enable or disable them easily, without the defaults having to change? -- Philip K.