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* The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC)
       [not found]                           ` <87wnuqgt7m.fsf@zoho.eu>
@ 2021-03-02  4:01                             ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
  2021-03-02  4:12                               ` books packs (was: Re: The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC)) Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
  2021-03-04 20:00                               ` The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC) Jean Louis
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions. @ 2021-03-02  4:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs, ding

Speaking of books, I've said many times I think we should have
a book called the


    ####### #     #    #     #####   #####
    #       ##   ##   # #   #     # #     #
    #       # # # #  #   #  #       #
    #####   #  #  # #     # #        #####
    #       #     # ####### #             #
    #       #     # #     # #     # #     #
    ####### #     # #     #  #####   #####


    #     # ####### ######  #       ######
    #  #  # #     # #     # #       #     #
    #  #  # #     # #     # #       #     #
    #  #  # #     # ######  #       #     #
    #  #  # #     # #   #   #       #     #
    #  #  # #     # #    #  #       #     #
     ## ##  ####### #     # ####### ######


written in a essay-style similar to this [1].

There would be one chapter on ERC, one on Gnus, one on
Emacs-w3m ... it would be like a map over the Emacs,
yes, world!

I can edit such a book - no problem, if so I promise the
following:

1. A great looking book thru and thru

2. All the extra material (chronology, glossary, screenshots
   with captions, releases, stats etc, in Preussian order)

3. No pretentious introduction by Yours Truly (phew)

4. Yours Truly's name not on the cover (aah)

5. Yours Truly's photo not on the back flip (WHAT?
   why ever not?)

And... I now know what you're ALL thinking of right now.
It's an offer you just can't refuse!

But don't say yes right away. Think about it!

[1]
@book{quarter-century-of-unix,
  author     = {Peter Salus},
  isbn       = 0201547775,
  publisher  = {Addison-Wesley},
  title      = {A Quarter Century of UNIX},
  year       = {1994}
}

> Uwe Brauer wrote:
>
>>> [1] https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/
>>
>>> [2] https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/gnus/
>>
>> I downloaded manually mail-to-many
>>
>> But the functions are not interactive, so it is not clear
>> to me how to use it.
>
> OT (well, 50/50)
>
> I wrote a small, but very ambitious book a couple of years
> back [1] - lots'a Norwegian people in that book BTW, maybe
> you guys can get it published there? I know how patriotic
> you are :) and you should be with that record, I guess.
> well, if you do, you get the literary agent's 15% for sure -
> anyway I got a list of like 70 or so publishers in Sweden,
> so I wanted to mail a letter and the book to everyone but it
> couldn't look like spam, that's why I wrote it.
> One publishers said, ~"what I great book! but no", the
> others said nothing or "no".
>
> Just a couple of years ago I started translating it into
> EPUB but that just felt bizarre, I started to hate myself
> almost, reading my self-assured blah blah, so I didn't get
> far. Also, the lovely LaTeX IMO (looks like a magazine
> article from the 70s) would be lost. (But my impression was
> irrational. It _is_ a good book, it just felt so
> strange doing!)
>
> So the project itself is what it is right now - gone, but
> not forgotten! (= Borta men inte glömd)
>
> New adventure project:
>
>   https://dataswamp.org/~incal/blog/index.html
>
> Can I interest you in a future tree house book?
>
> After that, maybe pick up that old book again. Or what do
> the successful people say - never look back? Right, I'm not
> successful :)
>
> [1] https://dataswamp.org/~incal/borta/borta.pdf

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* books packs (was: Re: The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC))
  2021-03-02  4:01                             ` The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC) Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
@ 2021-03-02  4:12                               ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
  2021-03-05  5:44                                 ` Jean Louis
  2021-03-04 20:00                               ` The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC) Jean Louis
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions. @ 2021-03-02  4:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs, ding

Speaking even more of books,

  https://dataswamp.org/~incal/#isbn

and in particular, the two complete packs

  https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/isbn-verify.el
  https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/issn-verify.el

if anyone likes these two complete packs and would like to put
them on [M]ELPA or the EmacsWiki or someplace else, please do.
I tried to understand how MELPA works but the README file
seems to be mostly about technology (?)

Two great packs IMO that are not just another program to do
yet another program, instead they solve a real world, well
a real technology at least, problem.

With bonus integration

  https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/bibtex-incal.el

and some material to try on:

  https://dataswamp.org/~incal/books/books.bib

> Speaking of books, I've said many times I think we should have
> a book called the
>
>     ####### #     #    #     #####   #####
>     #       ##   ##   # #   #     # #     #
>     #       # # # #  #   #  #       #
>     #####   #  #  # #     # #        #####
>     #       #     # ####### #             #
>     #       #     # #     # #     # #     #
>     ####### #     # #     #  #####   #####
>
>     #     # ####### ######  #       ######
>     #  #  # #     # #     # #       #     #
>     #  #  # #     # #     # #       #     #
>     #  #  # #     # ######  #       #     #
>     #  #  # #     # #   #   #       #     #
>     #  #  # #     # #    #  #       #     #
>      ## ##  ####### #     # ####### ######
>
> written in a essay-style similar to this [1].
>
> There would be one chapter on ERC, one on Gnus, one on
> Emacs-w3m ... it would be like a map over the Emacs,
> yes, world!
>
> I can edit such a book - no problem, if so I promise the
> following:
>
> 1. A great looking book thru and thru
>
> 2. All the extra material (chronology, glossary, screenshots
>    with captions, releases, stats etc, in Preussian order)
>
> 3. No pretentious introduction by Yours Truly (phew)
>
> 4. Yours Truly's name not on the cover (aah)
>
> 5. Yours Truly's photo not on the back flip (WHAT?
>    why ever not?)
>
> And... I now know what you're ALL thinking of right now.
> It's an offer you just can't refuse!
>
> But don't say yes right away. Think about it!
>
> [1]
> @book{quarter-century-of-unix,
>   author     = {Peter Salus},
>   isbn       = 0201547775,
>   publisher  = {Addison-Wesley},
>   title      = {A Quarter Century of UNIX},
>   year       = {1994}
> }
>
>> Uwe Brauer wrote:
>>
>>>> [1] https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/
>>>
>>>> [2] https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/gnus/
>>>
>>> I downloaded manually mail-to-many
>>>
>>> But the functions are not interactive, so it is not clear
>>> to me how to use it.
>>
>> OT (well, 50/50)
>>
>> I wrote a small, but very ambitious book a couple of years
>> back [1] - lots'a Norwegian people in that book BTW, maybe
>> you guys can get it published there? I know how patriotic
>> you are :) and you should be with that record, I guess.
>> well, if you do, you get the literary agent's 15% for sure -
>> anyway I got a list of like 70 or so publishers in Sweden,
>> so I wanted to mail a letter and the book to everyone but it
>> couldn't look like spam, that's why I wrote it.
>> One publishers said, ~"what I great book! but no", the
>> others said nothing or "no".
>>
>> Just a couple of years ago I started translating it into
>> EPUB but that just felt bizarre, I started to hate myself
>> almost, reading my self-assured blah blah, so I didn't get
>> far. Also, the lovely LaTeX IMO (looks like a magazine
>> article from the 70s) would be lost. (But my impression was
>> irrational. It _is_ a good book, it just felt so
>> strange doing!)
>>
>> So the project itself is what it is right now - gone, but
>> not forgotten! (= Borta men inte glömd)
>>
>> New adventure project:
>>
>>   https://dataswamp.org/~incal/blog/index.html
>>
>> Can I interest you in a future tree house book?
>>
>> After that, maybe pick up that old book again. Or what do
>> the successful people say - never look back? Right, I'm not
>> successful :)
>>
>> [1] https://dataswamp.org/~incal/borta/borta.pdf

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC)
  2021-03-02  4:01                             ` The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC) Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
  2021-03-02  4:12                               ` books packs (was: Re: The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC)) Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
@ 2021-03-04 20:00                               ` Jean Louis
  2021-03-06  5:18                                 ` Richard Stallman
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Jean Louis @ 2021-03-04 20:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

* Emanuel Berg via "Emacs development discussions. <emacs-devel@gnu.org> [2021-03-02 07:01]:
> Speaking of books, I've said many times I think we should have
> a book called the Emacs World

Good idea.

I hope it will be with free license.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: books packs (was: Re: The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC))
  2021-03-02  4:12                               ` books packs (was: Re: The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC)) Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
@ 2021-03-05  5:44                                 ` Jean Louis
  2021-03-05  7:40                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
  2021-05-04  7:00                                   ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Jean Louis @ 2021-03-05  5:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

* Emanuel Berg via "Emacs development discussions. <emacs-devel@gnu.org> [2021-03-02 07:13]:
> Speaking even more of books,
> 
>   https://dataswamp.org/~incal/#isbn
> 
> and in particular, the two complete packs
> 
>   https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/isbn-verify.el
>   https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/issn-verify.el

I suggest that you read the GPLv3 by doing C-h C-c the section "How to
Apply These Terms to Your New Programs" and add the proper copyright
notice in accordance with licensing terms of GPL version 3. It is for
your protection and for other people to know what rights they are
getting.

Providing only a notice "License: GPLv3" is not enough.

Let us say it legally, if author did not read the license GPL version
3 than author will not know the licensing terms and the fact that
author did not know the licensing terms is shown by lack of
application of the licensing terms, in this case proper copyright
notice.

Author could as well then say later that he, author, was not aware
that GPL version 3 is free software and that he only gave permission
to download, but not to modify as hypothetical example.

Software may be sold and re-sold and third party could sell the
software to user, and user could claim that if software was sold user
is asking for warranties, could even come to original author by
mistake. If notice about warranties is not displayed it can cause
troubles.

GPL version 3 software is often sold through market places of
freelancers such as freelancer.com or fiverr.com I know that as I have
been selling to clients. Free software is often used in larger
corporate server farms and applications with hundreds or maybe
thousands of customers paying high prices for some functions.

We know you, but the distributors of software will not know the
author, and user will not know what "GPLv3" means itself.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: books packs (was: Re: The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC))
  2021-03-05  5:44                                 ` Jean Louis
@ 2021-03-05  7:40                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
  2021-05-04  6:59                                     ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
  2021-05-04  7:00                                   ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2021-03-05  7:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jean Louis; +Cc: emacs-devel

> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2021 08:44:19 +0300
> From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> 
> * Emanuel Berg via "Emacs development discussions. <emacs-devel@gnu.org> [2021-03-02 07:13]:
> > Speaking even more of books,
> > 
> >   https://dataswamp.org/~incal/#isbn
> > 
> > and in particular, the two complete packs
> > 
> >   https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/isbn-verify.el
> >   https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/issn-verify.el
> 
> I suggest that you read the GPLv3 by doing C-h C-c the section "How to
> Apply These Terms to Your New Programs" and add the proper copyright
> notice in accordance with licensing terms of GPL version 3. It is for
> your protection and for other people to know what rights they are
> getting. [...]

I'm sorry, but why did you post this lecture on GPL and licensing
here?  What does it have to do with Emacs development?  The OP
cross-posted here and on help-gnu-emacs, which is already a mistake on
his part, but the response should have been posted only to
help-gnu-emacs, if at all.

These redundant and superfluous postings keep raising the noise level
on this list, and that is a bad thing, because important messages
about Emacs development get lost in the noise.  Please consider this
adverse effect next time when you think you need to say something on
this list.  If the message is not important enough, it is many times
better not to post it.

Thanks in advance.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC)
  2021-03-04 20:00                               ` The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC) Jean Louis
@ 2021-03-06  5:18                                 ` Richard Stallman
  2021-05-04  6:58                                   ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2021-03-06  5:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jean Louis; +Cc: emacs-devel

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

It is easy to say what books you would like us to have, but if you're
serious about it, you need to start writing them.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC)
  2021-03-06  5:18                                 ` Richard Stallman
@ 2021-05-04  6:58                                   ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
  2021-05-05  5:16                                     ` Richard Stallman
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions. @ 2021-05-04  6:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

Richard Stallman wrote:

> It is easy to say what books you would like us to have, but
> if you're serious about it, you need to start writing them.

I'm serious about it but I need a partner.

A coffee table book on Emacs with tons of photographs,
screenshots, lists, tables, and data would be a very original
and interesting product! And could possibly even bring some
money to the cause, knowing how much money there is in the
book business...

Read this book [last] if you don't believe me. We should have
one on Emacs. There are public libraries all over the world
that have just an endless array of computer books in English.
And most often not a single one on Emacs. It's a sad state
of affairs.

@book{quarter-century-of-unix,
  author     = {Peter Salus},
  isbn       = 0201547775,
  publisher  = {Addison-Wesley},
  title      = {A Quarter Century of UNIX},
  year       = {1994}
}

And here is one on Amiga:

@book{generation-500,
  author     = {Jimmy Wilhelmsson},
  isbn       = {978-91-76293-70-6},
  publisher  = {Bokfabriken},
  title      = {Generation 500},
  year       = {2017}
}

... and one on C64:

@book{generation-64,
  author     = {Jimmy Wilhelmsson},
  isbn       = {91-630-9465-7},
  publisher  = {Bokfabriken},
  title      = {Generation 64},
  year       = {2014}
}

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: books packs (was: Re: The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC))
  2021-03-05  7:40                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2021-05-04  6:59                                     ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions. @ 2021-05-04  6:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> I'm sorry, but why did you post this lecture on GPL and
> licensing here? What does it have to do with Emacs
> development? The OP cross-posted here and on help-gnu-emacs,
> which is already a mistake on his part, but the response
> should have been posted only to help-gnu-emacs, if at all.
>
> These redundant and superfluous postings keep raising the
> noise level on this list, and that is a bad thing, because
> important messages about Emacs development get lost in the
> noise. Please consider this adverse effect next time when
> you think you need to say something on this list. If the
> message is not important enough, it is many times better not
> to post it.

Come in?

What did you say?

Sorry, too much noise, can't hear you...

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: books packs (was: Re: The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC))
  2021-03-05  5:44                                 ` Jean Louis
  2021-03-05  7:40                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2021-05-04  7:00                                   ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions. @ 2021-05-04  7:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

Jean Louis wrote:

> I suggest that you read the GPLv3 by doing C-h C-c the
> section "How to Apply These Terms to Your New Programs" and
> add the proper copyright notice in accordance with licensing
> terms of GPL version 3. It is for your protection and for
> other people to know what rights they are getting.
>
> Providing only a notice "License: GPLv3" is not enough.
>
> Let us say it legally, if author did not read the license
> GPL version 3 than author will not know the licensing terms
> and the fact that author did not know the licensing terms is
> shown by lack of application of the licensing terms, in this
> case proper copyright notice.
>
> Author could as well then say later that he, author, was not
> aware that GPL version 3 is free software and that he only
> gave permission to download, but not to modify as
> hypothetical example.
>
> Software may be sold and re-sold and third party could sell
> the software to user, and user could claim that if software
> was sold user is asking for warranties, could even come to
> original author by mistake. If notice about warranties is
> not displayed it can cause troubles.
>
> GPL version 3 software is often sold through market places
> of freelancers such as freelancer.com or fiverr.com I know
> that as I have been selling to clients. Free software is
> often used in larger corporate server farms and applications
> with hundreds or maybe thousands of customers paying high
> prices for some functions.
>
> We know you, but the distributors of software will not know
> the author, and user will not know what "GPLv3"
> means itself.

Thank you Jean! Interesting.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC)
  2021-05-04  6:58                                   ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
@ 2021-05-05  5:16                                     ` Richard Stallman
  2021-05-05  5:24                                       ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2021-05-05  5:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Emanuel Berg; +Cc: emacs-devel

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > A coffee table book on Emacs with tons of photographs,
  > screenshots, lists, tables, and data would be a very original
  > and interesting product! And could possibly even bring some
  > money to the cause, knowing how much money there is in the
  > book business...

It might be fun, but I can't spare any time for it.
I am falling behind every day!

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC)
  2021-05-05  5:16                                     ` Richard Stallman
@ 2021-05-05  5:24                                       ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions. @ 2021-05-05  5:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

Richard Stallman wrote:

>> A coffee table book on Emacs with tons of photographs,
>> screenshots, lists, tables, and data would be a very
>> original and interesting product! And could possibly even
>> bring some money to the cause, knowing how much money there
>> is in the book business...
>
> It might be fun, but I can't spare any time for it. I am
> falling behind every day!

Yeah, I get it. But 80% or even 40% is still something, every
day. So be happy with that, is what I do, at least :)

If anyone likes the book idea, mail me... it isn't a huge
project, we are not writing the official history of Emacs, we
just compile tons of cool data and put it together in an
appealing way for the masses :)

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

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2021-03-02  4:01                             ` The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC) Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2021-03-02  4:12                               ` books packs (was: Re: The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC)) Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2021-03-05  5:44                                 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-05  7:40                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-05-04  6:59                                     ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2021-05-04  7:00                                   ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2021-03-04 20:00                               ` The Emacs World (was: Re: how can I convert the To field to CC) Jean Louis
2021-03-06  5:18                                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-05-04  6:58                                   ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2021-05-05  5:16                                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-05-05  5:24                                       ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.

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