* Shorthand variable named "elisp-shorthands" seems wrong [not found] <87tui6twco.fsf.ref@yahoo.com> @ 2021-09-27 5:34 ` Po Lu 2021-09-27 9:50 ` João Távora 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Po Lu @ 2021-09-27 5:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel I skimmed through the new manual section for reader shorthands today. It seems to be a very nice feature, but I don't think it's quite right to have the file-local variable for shorthands named `elisp-shorthands'. AFAIU, the only variables that are currently prefixed with `elisp-' involve editing support for Emacs Lisp such as `elisp-byte-code-mode-hook', et cetera. How about something like `read-shorthands' instead? Thanks. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Shorthand variable named "elisp-shorthands" seems wrong 2021-09-27 5:34 ` Shorthand variable named "elisp-shorthands" seems wrong Po Lu @ 2021-09-27 9:50 ` João Távora 2021-09-27 10:08 ` Stefan Kangas 2021-10-05 13:45 ` João Távora 0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: João Távora @ 2021-09-27 9:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Po Lu; +Cc: emacs-devel On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 7:08 AM Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > I skimmed through the new manual section for reader shorthands today. > It seems to be a very nice feature, but I don't think it's quite right > to have the file-local variable for shorthands named `elisp-shorthands'. > > AFAIU, the only variables that are currently prefixed with `elisp-' > involve editing support for Emacs Lisp such as > `elisp-byte-code-mode-hook', et cetera. > > How about something like `read-shorthands' instead? Thanks. No objections. João ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Shorthand variable named "elisp-shorthands" seems wrong 2021-09-27 9:50 ` João Távora @ 2021-09-27 10:08 ` Stefan Kangas 2021-09-27 11:23 ` Po Lu 2021-10-05 13:45 ` João Távora 1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Stefan Kangas @ 2021-09-27 10:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: João Távora, Po Lu; +Cc: emacs-devel João Távora <joaotavora@gmail.com> writes: >> I skimmed through the new manual section for reader shorthands today. >> It seems to be a very nice feature, but I don't think it's quite right >> to have the file-local variable for shorthands named `elisp-shorthands'. >> >> AFAIU, the only variables that are currently prefixed with `elisp-' >> involve editing support for Emacs Lisp such as >> `elisp-byte-code-mode-hook', et cetera. >> >> How about something like `read-shorthands' instead? Thanks. > > No objections. Naming is hard, and I don't want to bikeshed about this. But consider that most current variables matching "^read-" has something to do something to do with reading input from the user, IOW more with e.g. "read-key" than "read". Also, unlike "read-shorthands", "elisp-shorthands" immediately tells even the most casual reader that this has something to do with ELisp. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Shorthand variable named "elisp-shorthands" seems wrong 2021-09-27 10:08 ` Stefan Kangas @ 2021-09-27 11:23 ` Po Lu 2021-09-27 11:38 ` João Távora 2021-09-27 11:48 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Po Lu @ 2021-09-27 11:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: João Távora, emacs-devel Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> writes: > But consider that most current variables matching "^read-" has something > to do something to do with reading input from the user, IOW more with > e.g. "read-key" than "read". That is reasonable. How about `symbol-shorthands', or `reader-shorthands'? Or, as it is a file-local variable, simply `file-shorthands'? Or even just `shorthands'? Thanks. > Also, unlike "read-shorthands", "elisp-shorthands" immediately tells > even the most casual reader that this has something to do with ELisp. Yes, but when I see a variable prefixed with "elisp-", I assume it is related to Emacs Lisp editing support. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Shorthand variable named "elisp-shorthands" seems wrong 2021-09-27 11:23 ` Po Lu @ 2021-09-27 11:38 ` João Távora 2021-09-27 11:48 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: João Távora @ 2021-09-27 11:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Po Lu; +Cc: Stefan Kangas, emacs-devel Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> writes: > Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> writes: > >> But consider that most current variables matching "^read-" has something >> to do something to do with reading input from the user, IOW more with >> e.g. "read-key" than "read". In Common Lisp and Lisp languages reading things is always prefixed "read", whether from the user or from streams. There are many variables that influence the reader this process and they are traditionally prefixed 'read' (or *READ-...* in CL's case). Elisp has slightly bastardized with things that do not directly influence the Lisp reader, but other readers. But Elisp still keeps 'read-circle' and 'read-with-symbol-positions', for example for controlling the Lisp reader. So I think Po Lu's suggestion of 'read-shorthands' is spot-on. João ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Shorthand variable named "elisp-shorthands" seems wrong 2021-09-27 11:23 ` Po Lu 2021-09-27 11:38 ` João Távora @ 2021-09-27 11:48 ` Eli Zaretskii 2021-09-27 11:54 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2021-09-27 11:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Po Lu; +Cc: emacs-devel, stefankangas, joaotavora > From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> > Cc: João Távora <joaotavora@gmail.com>, emacs-devel > <emacs-devel@gnu.org> > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2021 19:23:54 +0800 > > Yes, but when I see a variable prefixed with "elisp-", I assume it is > related to Emacs Lisp editing support. Which it is, don't you agree? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Shorthand variable named "elisp-shorthands" seems wrong 2021-09-27 11:48 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2021-09-27 11:54 ` Eli Zaretskii 2021-09-27 12:02 ` Po Lu 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2021-09-27 11:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: luangruo; +Cc: joaotavora, stefankangas, emacs-devel > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2021 14:48:58 +0300 > From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, joaotavora@gmail.com > > > From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> > > Cc: João Távora <joaotavora@gmail.com>, emacs-devel > > <emacs-devel@gnu.org> > > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2021 19:23:54 +0800 > > > > Yes, but when I see a variable prefixed with "elisp-", I assume it is > > related to Emacs Lisp editing support. > > Which it is, don't you agree? Or how about elisp-symbol-shorthands? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Shorthand variable named "elisp-shorthands" seems wrong 2021-09-27 11:54 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2021-09-27 12:02 ` Po Lu 2021-09-27 12:43 ` Eli Zaretskii 2021-09-28 23:37 ` Richard Stallman 0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Po Lu @ 2021-09-27 12:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: joaotavora, stefankangas, emacs-devel Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > Which it is, don't you agree? I think I should rephrase what I said earlier. I don't agree that it applies to what currently uses the `elisp' prefix, which is currently used by the likes of `elisp-byte-code-mode', and the `elisp-xref--' group of variables. > Or how about elisp-symbol-shorthands? That still has the `elisp' prefix, while something like `read-shorthands' would be consistent with (as discussed further up this thread) the `read-circle' and `read-symbol-positions-list' variables we already have. Not to mention it would be somewhat more consistent with the plethora of print-XXX variables. Thanks. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Shorthand variable named "elisp-shorthands" seems wrong 2021-09-27 12:02 ` Po Lu @ 2021-09-27 12:43 ` Eli Zaretskii 2021-09-27 13:05 ` João Távora 2021-09-27 23:45 ` Po Lu 2021-09-28 23:37 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2021-09-27 12:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Po Lu; +Cc: emacs-devel, joaotavora, stefankangas > From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> > Cc: joaotavora@gmail.com, stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2021 20:02:57 +0800 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > > > Which it is, don't you agree? > > I think I should rephrase what I said earlier. I don't agree that it > applies to what currently uses the `elisp' prefix, which is currently > used by the likes of `elisp-byte-code-mode', and the `elisp-xref--' > group of variables. > > > Or how about elisp-symbol-shorthands? > > That still has the `elisp' prefix But this feature is specific to Elisp, isn't it? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Shorthand variable named "elisp-shorthands" seems wrong 2021-09-27 12:43 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2021-09-27 13:05 ` João Távora 2021-09-27 23:45 ` Po Lu 1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: João Távora @ 2021-09-27 13:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Po Lu, stefankangas, emacs-devel Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> >> Cc: joaotavora@gmail.com, stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2021 20:02:57 +0800 >> >> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> >> > Which it is, don't you agree? >> >> I think I should rephrase what I said earlier. I don't agree that it >> applies to what currently uses the `elisp' prefix, which is currently >> used by the likes of `elisp-byte-code-mode', and the `elisp-xref--' >> group of variables. >> >> > Or how about elisp-symbol-shorthands? >> >> That still has the `elisp' prefix > > But this feature is specific to Elisp, isn't it? The most common use of it is for programming Elisp, yes, like the most common use of the Lisp printer that comes with Emacs is also for Elisp. So after some thought, I would answer "no" here. They can be used for reading and printing things in other contexts where Lisp symbols are treated as data. But even if they aren't used in these ways, just the coherence to the 'print-*' variables and the existing 'read-*' variables is enough for me. João ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Shorthand variable named "elisp-shorthands" seems wrong 2021-09-27 12:43 ` Eli Zaretskii 2021-09-27 13:05 ` João Távora @ 2021-09-27 23:45 ` Po Lu 1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Po Lu @ 2021-09-27 23:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: emacs-devel, joaotavora, stefankangas Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > But this feature is specific to Elisp, isn't it? Yes, to the best of my knowledge. (Though one of the non-free Common Lisp implementations has something similar, I can't remember which) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Shorthand variable named "elisp-shorthands" seems wrong 2021-09-27 12:02 ` Po Lu 2021-09-27 12:43 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2021-09-28 23:37 ` Richard Stallman 2021-09-28 23:51 ` Po Lu 1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2021-09-28 23:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Po Lu; +Cc: eliz, emacs-devel, joaotavora, stefankangas [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] I think that "shorthands" is not the most natural term for these. Our usual term for this sort of thing is "abbreviation". I think `symbol-prefix-abbrevs' would be clearer. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Shorthand variable named "elisp-shorthands" seems wrong 2021-09-28 23:37 ` Richard Stallman @ 2021-09-28 23:51 ` Po Lu 0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Po Lu @ 2021-09-28 23:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Richard Stallman; +Cc: eliz, emacs-devel, joaotavora, stefankangas Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes: > I think that "shorthands" is not the most natural term for these. > Our usual term for this sort of thing is "abbreviation". > > I think `symbol-prefix-abbrevs' would be clearer. I think `symbol-prefix-abbrevs' carries the implication that `prefix-abbrevs' is some sort of cell in the symbol. How about `read-prefixes' or `read-prefix-abbrevs'? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Shorthand variable named "elisp-shorthands" seems wrong 2021-09-27 9:50 ` João Távora 2021-09-27 10:08 ` Stefan Kangas @ 2021-10-05 13:45 ` João Távora 1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: João Távora @ 2021-10-05 13:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Po Lu; +Cc: emacs-devel [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 724 bytes --] LOn Mon, Sep 27, 2021, 10:50 João Távora <joaotavora@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 7:08 AM Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > I skimmed through the new manual section for reader shorthands today. > > It seems to be a very nice feature, but I don't think it's quite right > > to have the file-local variable for shorthands named `elisp-shorthands'. > > > > AFAIU, the only variables that are currently prefixed with `elisp-' > > involve editing support for Emacs Lisp such as > > `elisp-byte-code-mode-hook', et cetera. > > > > How about something like `read-shorthands' instead? Thanks. > > No objections. > The variable is now called 'read-symbol-shorthands'. João > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1419 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2021-10-05 13:45 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 14+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
[not found] <87tui6twco.fsf.ref@yahoo.com>
2021-09-27 5:34 ` Shorthand variable named "elisp-shorthands" seems wrong Po Lu
2021-09-27 9:50 ` João Távora
2021-09-27 10:08 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-27 11:23 ` Po Lu
2021-09-27 11:38 ` João Távora
2021-09-27 11:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-27 11:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-27 12:02 ` Po Lu
2021-09-27 12:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-27 13:05 ` João Távora
2021-09-27 23:45 ` Po Lu
2021-09-28 23:37 ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-28 23:51 ` Po Lu
2021-10-05 13:45 ` João Távora
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).