From: "João Távora" <joaotavora@gmail.com>
To: Tomas Hlavaty <tom@logand.com>
Cc: emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 17:02:12 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87tui2yruj.fsf@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <877deyjc5e.fsf@logand.com> (Tomas Hlavaty's message of "Thu, 30 Sep 2021 17:50:21 +0200")
Tomas Hlavaty <tom@logand.com> writes:
> On Thu 30 Sep 2021 at 15:57, João Távora <joaotavora@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 3:27 PM Tomas Hlavaty <tom@logand.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That does not work. Common Lisp reader is programable. If you do not
>>> compile and load everything needed sucessfully, the reader will fail for
>>> anything non-trivial.
>>
>> Those non-trivial things are quite rare,
>
> Not really.
>
>> and good reader etiquette makes the code that is CL:READ with a
>> non-full reader at least make a good deal of sense.
>
> What is "good reader etiquette"?
See this section of CLTL2
https://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node191.html
See how some combinations are explicitly reserved for the user. Stick
to those.
> What if some library does not have "good reader etiquette"?
> Do you give up search because of that?
No, but it's like libraries using
(intern (format nil "~a~a" "foo" "bar"))
They're not making life easier for their users in that respect.
> It is not a choice between one or the other. I need both. Please do
> not break grep and web search.
I explained how they are already "broken". In CL (the topic of this
particular subthread), by packages and in every language that has any
type of indirection. I'm saying they were never really "good" to begin
with, not if you want to use the full available power in those
languages.
> There are some heuristics for choosing good names.
Yes there are, and you shouldn't give them up, by any means.
João
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-09-30 16:02 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 332+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-09-28 0:38 Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master) Phil Sainty
2021-09-28 5:43 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-09-28 7:26 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 6:03 ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-30 8:20 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 10:31 ` André A. Gomes
2021-09-30 10:54 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-30 11:18 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 11:40 ` André A. Gomes
2021-09-30 16:58 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-30 20:25 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 3:01 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-30 11:30 ` André A. Gomes
2021-09-30 17:37 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-30 11:46 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 12:41 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 13:00 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 13:26 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 14:26 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 14:57 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 15:50 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 16:02 ` João Távora [this message]
2021-09-30 17:58 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 23:30 ` João Távora
2021-10-04 15:29 ` André A. Gomes
2021-09-30 13:18 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 13:31 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 13:41 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 16:23 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-09-30 17:19 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 1:20 ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-09-30 22:10 ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-09-30 22:22 ` A read-based grep-like for symbols (el-search?) (was Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master)) João Távora
2021-09-30 23:23 ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-09-30 23:38 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 1:17 ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-10-01 7:02 ` tomas
2021-10-01 13:15 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 13:53 ` tomas
2021-10-01 14:30 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-01 14:40 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 15:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-01 16:05 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 16:11 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 16:41 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 23:17 ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-10-02 1:14 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-02 1:46 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 2:13 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-04 15:57 ` André A. Gomes
2021-10-02 1:05 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-02 1:30 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 1:43 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-02 2:05 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 2:24 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-02 8:39 ` Adam Porter
2021-10-02 8:36 ` Adam Porter
2021-10-02 12:16 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-02 23:18 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-03 21:17 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-07 22:21 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-18 21:13 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-18 21:22 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-20 6:45 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-20 8:00 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-23 23:26 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-01 22:58 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-01 23:03 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 8:50 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 10:29 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 11:57 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 12:44 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 14:50 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 15:01 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 15:22 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-02 15:33 ` But then what are namespaces ? (was: A read-based grep-like for symbols (el-search?) (was Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master))) João Távora
2021-10-02 19:42 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 19:59 ` But then what are namespaces ? Stefan Monnier
2021-10-02 20:41 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 21:05 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-02 21:09 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 21:14 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-02 22:41 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 22:49 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 23:31 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-03 21:47 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 20:00 ` But then what are namespaces ? (was: A read-based grep-like for symbols (el-search?) (was Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master))) João Távora
2021-10-02 20:41 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 20:46 ` João Távora
2021-10-03 1:15 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-10-02 15:25 ` A read-based grep-like for symbols (el-search?) (was Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master)) João Távora
2021-10-02 16:08 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-01 22:58 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-01 23:10 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 9:03 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 10:25 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 23:04 ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-09-30 12:34 ` Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master) Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-28 6:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-28 7:41 ` João Távora
2021-09-28 8:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-28 8:07 ` Helmut Eller
2021-10-02 1:06 ` João Távora
2021-09-28 12:40 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-28 15:28 ` João Távora
2021-09-28 19:21 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-28 17:25 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-28 18:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-28 19:05 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-28 19:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-30 12:23 ` Phil Sainty
2021-09-30 12:28 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 12:29 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 12:44 ` Joost Kremers
2021-09-30 13:18 ` Adam Porter
2021-10-01 0:11 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-30 12:52 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 12:55 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 13:49 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 13:17 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-01 0:21 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 14:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-30 14:27 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 22:50 ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-01 0:44 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-01 7:06 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-01 7:24 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 10:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-01 6:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-01 12:24 ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-01 13:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 0:28 ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-02 6:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 7:44 ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-02 8:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 10:52 ` João Távora
2021-10-04 0:12 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-04 0:16 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-04 13:09 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-04 15:44 ` João Távora
2021-10-04 16:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-04 17:43 ` João Távora
2021-10-04 17:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-04 18:34 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-04 19:15 ` João Távora
2021-10-04 19:30 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-05 21:20 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-06 13:12 ` João Távora
2021-10-05 21:20 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-05 21:20 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-05 22:07 ` João Távora
2021-10-05 22:15 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-06 11:28 ` João Távora
2021-10-06 12:21 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-06 12:30 ` João Távora
2021-10-06 12:46 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-06 13:16 ` João Távora
2021-10-06 16:23 ` João Távora
2021-10-06 20:00 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-06 21:10 ` João Távora
2021-10-06 21:39 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-10 21:09 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-07 22:21 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-07 22:24 ` João Távora
2021-10-08 6:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-08 12:58 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-08 13:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-10 21:06 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-10 21:18 ` João Távora
2021-10-08 14:16 ` João Távora
2021-10-08 15:55 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-08 17:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-08 18:16 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-08 18:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-08 23:43 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 22:38 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-01 22:41 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 22:52 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 23:52 ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-02 1:38 ` T.V Raman
2021-09-28 19:30 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-09-28 18:38 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-28 19:14 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-28 19:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-28 19:31 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-28 19:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-30 22:10 ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-30 23:59 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-28 7:21 ` João Távora
2021-09-28 12:49 ` Phil Sainty
2021-09-28 13:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-09-28 14:04 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-28 15:01 ` Adam Porter
2021-09-28 15:20 ` João Távora
2021-09-28 19:23 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-28 15:15 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 6:06 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-05 5:57 ` Elisp LSP Server Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-05 6:38 ` Po Lu
2021-10-05 9:50 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-05 11:27 ` Po Lu
2021-10-05 11:46 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-06 20:57 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-06 21:22 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-06 21:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-07 22:27 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-07 0:49 ` Po Lu
2021-10-10 12:48 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-10 14:19 ` Daniel Martín
2021-10-10 16:49 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-10 19:25 ` Daniel Martín
2021-10-11 7:44 ` Po Lu
2021-10-11 21:15 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-12 5:29 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-12 5:48 ` Po Lu
2021-10-12 17:14 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-12 17:46 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-12 20:53 ` dick
2021-10-13 2:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 11:56 ` dick
2021-10-13 13:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 4:47 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-13 0:02 ` Po Lu
2021-10-27 14:36 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-27 18:04 ` dick
2021-10-27 18:27 ` tomas
2021-10-27 18:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-27 18:55 ` Karl Fogel
2021-10-27 19:15 ` dick
2021-10-12 7:14 ` tomas
2021-10-12 8:04 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-12 22:43 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-13 3:42 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-13 5:20 ` Po Lu
2021-10-13 12:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 12:49 ` Po Lu
2021-10-13 13:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 13:37 ` Po Lu
2021-10-13 13:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 23:42 ` Po Lu
2021-10-13 13:38 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-14 22:22 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-14 22:26 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-15 6:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-15 9:54 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-12 22:43 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-13 5:36 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-13 22:40 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-10 23:45 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-11 7:34 ` Po Lu
2021-10-11 9:10 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-11 10:46 ` Po Lu
2021-10-11 10:48 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-11 21:16 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-12 7:17 ` tomas
2021-10-14 12:48 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-15 22:47 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-11 21:10 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-22 16:23 ` Mathias Dahl
2021-10-22 16:40 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-22 16:45 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-22 19:59 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-22 22:27 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-22 22:48 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-22 23:11 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-23 23:27 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-25 7:47 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-23 2:00 ` Po Lu
2021-10-25 2:17 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-25 7:00 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-22 16:55 ` Mathias Dahl
2021-10-22 20:55 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-25 2:17 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-25 7:22 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-25 7:45 ` Theodor Thornhill
2021-10-25 7:51 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-25 8:23 ` Theodor Thornhill
2021-10-30 6:51 ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-01 11:48 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-01 17:47 ` Tim Cross
2021-11-03 3:18 ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-03 20:06 ` Jostein Kjønigsen
2021-11-05 3:53 ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-05 5:55 ` Daniel Brooks
2021-11-05 6:25 ` Jostein Kjønigsen
2021-11-05 9:56 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-25 5:46 ` Jostein Kjønigsen
2021-10-06 20:57 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-06 21:35 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-05 10:15 ` Joost Kremers
2021-10-06 20:57 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-12 2:52 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-12 3:37 ` dick
2021-10-12 3:43 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-12 22:41 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-12 4:08 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-12 5:55 ` Po Lu
2021-10-12 7:22 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-12 10:21 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-12 12:14 ` tomas
2021-10-12 12:51 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-12 13:08 ` tomas
2021-10-12 12:22 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-12 22:41 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-13 0:00 ` Po Lu
2021-10-13 0:22 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-13 0:31 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-13 17:15 ` Joost Kremers
2021-10-13 17:34 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-13 20:00 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-13 21:47 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-13 23:14 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-14 6:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-14 6:58 ` Po Lu
2021-10-14 6:52 ` Po Lu
2021-10-14 11:08 ` dick
2021-10-14 13:34 ` Augusto Stoffel
2021-10-14 8:20 ` João Távora
2021-10-15 22:51 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-16 19:02 ` João Távora
2021-10-17 23:49 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-17 23:58 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-20 22:33 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-18 0:32 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-18 1:18 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-18 2:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-18 12:43 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-18 13:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-14 7:01 ` Po Lu
2021-10-14 8:43 ` [OT] Elisp as a general purpose programming language (was: Elisp LSP Server) Joost Kremers
2021-10-14 10:37 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-10-14 7:03 ` Elisp LSP Server Po Lu
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