From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Payas Relekar Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Abysmal state of GTK build Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 12:51:50 +0530 Message-ID: <87tu631ktq.fsf@gmail.com> References: <8735dn30if.fsf@gmail.com> <87pmgr8m3t.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24646"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.8.9; emacs 29.0.50 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Gregory Heytings , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 23 13:08:31 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oQRln-0006IH-Ib for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 13:08:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54030 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQRlm-00062V-IB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 07:08:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60126) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQOJq-0001JL-FW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 03:27:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pf1-x435.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::435]:41940) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQOJo-0004P2-3J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 03:27:26 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-x435.google.com with SMTP id g129so9348947pfb.8 for ; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 00:27:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:date:subject:cc:to:from :user-agent:references:from:to:cc; bh=J4H/ipb4KrRkWAOFOBC0zBWK6aiS0NjYMbwcyqGgZAk=; b=norfoblwVspzKn+dPqG4eKvZmAT3B/sSmZrULZUQ7s8G77pzhM20uBra1KlmFRVSRq cWoJCjxvBXnjJbTv4bEGFR2ieKsLYRjQh2957c2K2ZdbjyA5B2E+DUVqLZDfRgAXG8ME xrzasOlt/t4hVZhBK81hmb39/HCQqNIFbNAwFbmBH3In1uU2kPhYIWLaLpJHYIGyQzz1 burpLzV6xTB5Q20Z8Odnud0YN8B9rvOoKw7kkCNmOzXmDsxuNDc8MmmAbOyYAGYEkRzw Z9/wYYCxVOirA+0JHQ4CqpGsiMRmXX7xTCs3iJi5QpfzznSpdsxZetMj9yS/UOG2gVLL w+sg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:date:subject:cc:to:from :user-agent:references:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc; bh=J4H/ipb4KrRkWAOFOBC0zBWK6aiS0NjYMbwcyqGgZAk=; b=4NIuebmCSs7lOMjLdRNJvOC6lGxRfnbPkqQFQD2O7ki03jVMyFF8u/Pz1cYcDGW9jo 0jnWZKY8L1Z/bP/Bmv5/Yvg9vA/evTkUjmQn4mrXjp/pkhEFBceQwVR9Y/+ez92xr1Yw ve25soaBBGy7YymVCPr2DQuDoTuPqGrsKJ3OOXxVrAVkSyuzvWFPPOR4+hRcGSM1m8aE cPa4hdh+JkrPe4WCKvBVFCTqgmUCQCYkWAwOKnwphcDJNJol+5KNofm3MeBSUCVGsq8x o2QVlNnkjoOeL+K5F3QmCQm5orAQsGuZ6laKuXioMJEOWJ/l4zml15CNwzxgvnaAh/5h 1+jw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo3J6LOa+QxpyJnHF+IH+UKC6+WaqRU1STaOCAJ/fJFUey6d6XaE uihS3oYQ6g/91ev+P9jUXFU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR4E4WsoLPQmxbSop6QK+abxqLylmmNH3AtCKTgEZ+iLPs1VvYfcEVDCx3EXMWcxN15TJgLPVg== X-Received: by 2002:aa7:8653:0:b0:52d:6fc3:1e41 with SMTP id a19-20020aa78653000000b0052d6fc31e41mr24454312pfo.13.1661239638404; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 00:27:18 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost ([150.107.26.19]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h135-20020a62838d000000b0052d432b4cc0sm9963973pfe.33.2022.08.23.00.27.16 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 23 Aug 2022 00:27:17 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <87pmgr8m3t.fsf@yahoo.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::435; envelope-from=relekarpayas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-x435.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 07:05:51 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:293862 Archived-At: Po Lu writes: > Payas Relekar writes: > >> How much of an issue will this be on Wayland systems? Considering GTK4 > ^^^^ > That will hopefully be GTK 5. Indeed, I checked and you are correct. That puts X11 demise on 10+ year timeline. >> will probably drop X11 support, and Fedora, Debian and Ubuntu (likely >> covering vast majority of Linux desktop) are Wayland default, how much >> of a critical dependence do we have on custom X11 support, and how much >> can we afford to rely on Qt to not have these issues on Wayland? > > It will not affect Wayland at all, since the Wayland drag-and-drop API > is too limited to allow Emacs to implement drag-and-drop properly there. > > Most importantly, there is no way to cancel drag-and-drop after it > begins (think C-g), or to receive a notification when the pointer > reenters the frame where it originated after leaving. That is unfortunate. Considering HiDPI + mixed DPI support is non-existent in X11, I was really hoping Wayland feature bulimia to be solved/on-way-to-be-solved problem by now. > X will probably remain the primary window server for the next decade or > so. Anyone who doesn't want to use one of the several Wayland-ready > desktop environments on supported hardware will have to use X, even if > Wayland is the default on most distros. That is fair. From what I understand Wayland support on non-Linux systems is still imperfect at best so X11 support is here to stay. But, can we have it as non-default and get away with it for the most part? Considering drag-and-drop situation you mentioned above I am not expecting rainbows, but is it something we can try for? Apologies for simple (and possibly stupid) questions, but GTK situation has more thorns than I previously thought. Considering WSL2 will have more people using Emacs via Wayland/Pgtk making defaults more important. Thanks, Payas --