From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: emacs-29 b8d2ec920f: Revert "Improve last change to xfaces.c" (05ece1eb8b) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 18:05:49 +0800 Message-ID: <87tu21hr7m.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <167080778504.14972.16819452979975432761@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <20221212011625.58E8AC004B4@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <877cyxjqd8.fsf@yahoo.com> <87359ljq04.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5165"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 12 11:06:45 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1p4fhs-00018N-1N for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 12 Dec 2022 11:06:44 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p4fhK-0000tV-TW; Mon, 12 Dec 2022 05:06:10 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p4fhJ-0000tN-DJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Dec 2022 05:06:09 -0500 Original-Received: from sonic313-56.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.185.31]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p4fhD-0004gU-Dh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Dec 2022 05:06:08 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1670839558; bh=+Sh/nBOVI8+A9qpr8riRstw1SIsshcpgC6kE39uFXPs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=hWK08iIinojJ/j7A6SDJC0tNFjz9z5c+ju+GPBJVQKcFzEn4QeZk1h2iA5r+SA5wOiwAtHM1Cr/yQtaWOd/onUluflH1OpkUVdpkIfasWyC8PL18sCDfD2qI5cRQz/0t0dqtyOBz4j9Bl+SSeTcculjicRWgHiHpYlsGwMwP/DBI4NVmSSeBenbkR3N7FMNN79QVUx0J5XKY4dDDVOTpJODBad8xFNKaznbXAhmPy3REG1kPXuVQk15k/TFIvCs2hh+4wo5aNbIav1bGS6UkRstJjW1SAokAhfV8+y7IsWD8RjGMubPlOcEojL8scx1w1e4GHdYX64Fv3i16/0vr2A== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1670839558; bh=I+W70AgrYqGPWb39q/19h/9/ucv+l152YDmCRw7X+v7=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=SK8JneKFUnqumvBH0bk0wj4uOkaLTEx/8tODkg1aju5Pl8tOuVNBmusa85U2+7VC5fucSjFVUDHC5OuZQu98xzNDioGewhjN80BIKQEc8Keekfyq3wVZdlW+6ooYa5nXVQz1jhLSJ2W0gcFkcekYe+xT9GGZkmzyWGg4BKZsPHa4ae0wEKnv6Z0ftnylltxmWlh2Rk35jE54ffOxoZpTuSOXRW/MO+vurqdy8+YZrlPhXEQsHhKzQ7Y9kPZlPTTLqeI3B+iIckTY1APPwrJghxibmpZrSv17lEmIT+71svDdmFZ8bWNQz896s6ep4s6KteVIkYK8/vPBYWCt3yw59A== X-YMail-OSG: JJhmBx4VM1kk83j1guECHOSMsgnhExzbVjwBV0EJyyRznx7xxkwiz21U8hw1OOb SdkV4A6MjermJnhOPEOHFzD304PZXU8dHjFp0ZsgWv__swdkDibURRSB0C2ymrqiwySwj.FSvKw9 TVr7zSonPDSzi.Z64hKneEOQM9XuFc4ck7188l5EkcRi6VvaMXSdkWpSRJUs23.TdB58lzPSDlDo J0HLTmDFXH86Qcd8vl6onN2V7SYAZk5HGdvvAOZbm_EdB18mkTiEVMOiRstEdzxtlj2N3.8Ncj5N sI8aWUVmVZfGhFGRt3twqwzMkBlg_zlr36yv9T6fHjiS4t5bGFbKoapcFacdph3NxBSSJ_SVTvdO j4qhCVWrIBnOrtLCJUobyz7O9b2fdWW.O.ZBStShI73BpDblsfs4RWhjCD0vSJ2A6_us.DJITq00 c9ivEtvvQbfLR_cnhgc1kZAhqzA59BurkxcEuvBvKnvT3pLfLEWF7a4DYsrvKLxOQch_UVTfpJQy uYBFdclIpocpRGRHNnSjm.AN_kmVYiVWfeKT4pUlSEERcilfXljpQZUcPOCePnIDbetnmvpQ3s19 sgTP9lJ1gXl7OQU4wQ1nIfstTxdlVM4UsZ2GEOwyYOgMiBpOZfFMUt1g.5Kwtovk7ojp8exiVx36 LnMCc2cljxzI9oiSEgDfIoT1cCyctC5Wlpn_stPagW0kf79VYGb6Sa.9OUn1Xq8xVPIvu3r8nN_K 8TesDHzcxe6_M2ugMivUYPsfr9sj.LEcn87M0NYrEvQNxPx5OHqUGzaux9VlObTdk11AEjuaNExt qCptjlKMmptR9RXy.czSebwAjgKkdnDU7Ys7edEUYE X-Sonic-MF: Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic313.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 12 Dec 2022 10:05:58 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-b666c6484-fp465 (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID a288e61e136cdadeb211bab77f24bde0; Mon, 12 Dec 2022 10:05:55 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (Gregory Heytings's message of "Mon, 12 Dec 2022 09:09:43 +0000") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20926 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.185.31; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic313-56.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:301202 Archived-At: Gregory Heytings writes: > Of course I did. That you did not read it is another thing. You did not. The only real technical argument you put forth was some nonsense about FOR_EACH_TAIL being slow. > What kind of development practice is this? You "improve" code in a > complex area of the Emacs code base that was agreed upon after a long > discussion only a couple of hours after it was pushed, without asking > anyone whether what you want to do is okay? My change did not change any behavior, which is why I saw no purpose discussing it at all. All it did was rename and redocument a Lisp variable to remove technicalities that are not of interest to our users. How many people will remember to redocument the variable the next time enum font_property_index is changed? Or when realize_gui_face is renamed? > And you revert without even reading or replying to the detailed > explanation why that "improvement" was wrong. I replied. > That's wrong. And you would have understood this if you had read the > detailed explanation why your "improvement" is wrong. Really? What if a font entity is there, not a font spec? Or a font spec from the Haiku font dialog? > It isn't, and it is not supposed to be modified on a daily basis. A bitmask is always a nuisance, both for users and developers. Not all Emacs users write programs in languages that make heavy use of bitmasks such as C. > Nobody said the discussion was over (although I was hoping it was). > > But what you did is not a "discussion", it is the exact opposite of a > "discussion": these are misguided changes introduced in the release > branch _without any discussion_. Why do I have to discuss so-called ``misguided'' changes to obvious problems, such as having a bitmask exposed to Lisp? Once again, here are the problems with having bitmasks exposed to users (not necessarily just through Lisp, this applies to other extension languages as well along with some graphics drivers) that have been found in real life: 1. Nobody will ever remember to update the variable after the enum is changed. 2. Someone will fill the bitmask with random bogus that happens to do nothing now, but will start to do something unexpected ``some time later''. 3. The maximum value of enum font_property_index will exceed what can fit in 29 bits at some point in the future. The doc string and variable was renamed because they make references to the inner workings of the font machinery. Again, who will remember to change the doc string once the C code is rewritten or changed, possibly after you and I are both gone, or, god forbid, even dead? (The latter is a real possibility with the vast timescales in this project.)