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From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net>
To: Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Re: Bignum performance (was: Shrinking the C core)
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 10:21:26 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87ttt3fdjt.fsf@localhost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87sf8ni85u.fsf@dataswamp.org>

Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> writes:

>> In practice, as more generic benchmarks demonstrated, we
>> only had 10% performance hit. Not something to claim that
>> Elisp is much slower compared to CL.
>
> What do you mean, generic +10% is a huge improvement.

It is, but it is also tangent to comparison between Elisp and CL. The
main (AFAIU) difference between Elisp and CL is in how the bignums are
stored. Elisp uses its own internal object type while CL uses GMP's
native format. And we have huge overheads converting things
back-and-forth between GMP and Elisp formats. It is by choice. And my
patch did not do anything about this difference.

Also, +10% is just on my machine. We need someone else to test things
before jumping to far-reaching conclusions. I plan to submit the patch
in a less ad-hoc state later, as a separate ticket.

>> It would be more useful to compare CL with Elisp using less
>> specialized benchmarks that do not involve bignums.
>> As Mattias commented, we do not care much about bignum
>> performance in Elisp - it is a rarely used feature; we are
>> content that it simply works, even if not fast, and the core
>> contributors (at least, Mattias) are not seeing improving
>> bignums as their priority.
>
> But didn't your patch do that already?

No. The benchmark only compared between Elisp before/after the patch.
Not with CL.

> Instead of relying on a single benchmark, one should have
> a set of benchmarks and every benchmark should have a purpose,
> this doesn't have to be so involved tho, for example "bignums"
> could be the purpose of my benchmark, so one would have
> several, say a dozen, each with the purpose of slowing the
> computer down with respect to some aspect or known
> situation that one would try to provoke ... It can be
> well-known algorithms for that matter.
>
> One would then do the same thing in CL and see, where do CL
> perform much better? The next question would be, why?

Sure. Feel free to share such benchmark for Elisp vs. CL. I only know
the benchmark library for Elisp. No equivalent comparable benchmark for
CL.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>



  reply	other threads:[~2023-08-13 10:21 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 247+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-08-09  9:46 Shrinking the C core Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-09 10:55 ` Andreas Schwab
2023-08-09 11:03   ` Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-09 11:29     ` Andreas Schwab
2023-08-09 12:34 ` Po Lu
2023-08-09 15:51   ` Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-09 23:56     ` Po Lu
2023-08-10  1:19       ` Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-10  1:47         ` Christopher Dimech
2023-08-10  1:58         ` Eric Frederickson
2023-08-10  2:07           ` Sam James
2023-08-10  2:44             ` Po Lu
2023-08-10  6:48             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-10 21:21               ` Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-10 21:19             ` Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-10 21:56               ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-11  5:46               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-11  8:45                 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-11 11:24                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-11 12:12                     ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-11 13:16                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-10  2:28         ` Po Lu
2023-08-10  4:15           ` Christopher Dimech
2023-08-10  7:44         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-10 21:54           ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-11 10:27             ` Bignum performance (was: Shrinking the C core) Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 12:10               ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-11 12:32                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 12:38                   ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-11 14:07                     ` [PATCH] " Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 18:06                       ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-11 19:41                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 19:50                           ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-12  8:24                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-12 16:03                               ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13  9:09                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-13  9:49                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13 10:21                                     ` Ihor Radchenko [this message]
2023-08-14  2:20                                       ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14  2:42                                         ` [PATCH] Re: Bignum performance Po Lu
2023-08-14  4:16                                           ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14  7:15                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-14  7:50                                             ` Po Lu
2023-08-14  9:28                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-15 14:28                                             ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14  7:20                                         ` [PATCH] Re: Bignum performance (was: Shrinking the C core) Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 22:46                           ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-12  8:30                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-12 16:22                               ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13  9:12                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 14:14               ` Mattias Engdegård
2023-08-11 18:09                 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-10 23:49           ` Shrinking the C core Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-11  0:03             ` Christopher Dimech
2023-08-11  8:24               ` Immanuel Litzroth
2023-08-11  7:03             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-11  7:19               ` tomas
2023-08-11 10:57               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-10 11:28         ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-08-10 21:26           ` Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-12  2:46           ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-12  3:22             ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-12  8:33               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-12 15:58                 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13  9:13                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-13  9:55                     ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13 10:23                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-13 20:55                         ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14  0:13                         ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-12 18:32               ` tomas
2023-08-12 22:08                 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-12 23:09                 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13  5:50                   ` tomas
2023-08-13  8:38                     ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13 15:54                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2023-08-13  8:00                   ` Andreas Schwab
2023-08-13  9:21                     ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14  7:27                       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-14  7:36                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-14  7:50                           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-15 22:57                             ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-16 10:27                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-19 13:29                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-20  5:09                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20  6:51                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-20  7:14                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20  7:52                                         ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-20 13:01                                           ` tomas
2023-08-20 13:12                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20  8:28                                         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20  9:29                                           ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-20 15:22                                             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 15:36                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 15:45                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-20 15:54                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 16:29                                                     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 16:37                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 17:19                                                         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 17:31                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 18:54                                                             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 19:07                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-27  3:53                                                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-20 19:15                                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 19:24                                                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21  2:33                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-21  4:11                                                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21  4:15                                                                       ` Po Lu
2023-08-21  4:36                                                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21  4:43                                                                           ` Po Lu
2023-08-21  5:06                                                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21  5:25                                                                               ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2023-08-21  5:34                                                                               ` Po Lu
2023-08-21  9:17                                                                                 ` Add more supported primitives in libgccjit IR (was: Shrinking the C core) Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21  9:42                                                                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2023-08-21 10:36                                                                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 11:02                                                                                       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 11:41                                                                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 12:20                                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-21 14:49                                                                                             ` Add more supported primitives in libgccjit IR Andrea Corallo
2023-08-23 10:11                                                                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-25  9:19                                                                                                 ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-25 11:06                                                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-25 14:26                                                                                                     ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-26 11:14                                                                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27  1:40                                                                                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-27  7:38                                                                                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-27 13:42                                                                                                       ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-27 22:19                                                                                                         ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-28  5:04                                                                                                           ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-28 19:49                                                                                                             ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-26  0:47                                                                                               ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-26  8:26                                                                                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-26 17:52                                                                                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-21 11:05                                                                                       ` Add more supported primitives in libgccjit IR (was: Shrinking the C core) Gregory Heytings
2023-08-21 11:46                                                                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 12:33                                                                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2023-08-21 11:34                                                                                       ` Add more supported primitives in libgccjit IR Manuel Giraud via Emacs development discussions.
2023-08-21 11:02                                                                                     ` Add more supported primitives in libgccjit IR (was: Shrinking the C core) Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 11:12                                                                                   ` Add more supported primitives in libgccjit IR Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-21 11:53                                                                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27  2:04                                                                                 ` Shrinking the C core Emanuel Berg
2023-08-21  7:59                                                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2023-08-27  5:31                                                                               ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-27  6:16                                                                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-21 10:48                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-21 11:56                                                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 12:22                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-28  4:41                                                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-28 11:27                                                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 20:15                                                                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 20:39                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21  5:59                                                                     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21  6:23                                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21  7:21                                                                         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21  7:26                                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21  7:52                                                                             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 10:46                                                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 11:02                                                                                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-27  4:01                                                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-27  8:53                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27  3:48                                                               ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-27  9:06                                                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27  3:25                                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-27  8:55                                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 16:03                                                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 16:34                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 17:19                                                     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 17:25                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 18:54                                                         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 19:02                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-20 20:11                                                             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-23 21:09                                                               ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-26  2:01                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-26  5:48                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-26 18:15                                                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-26 18:27                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-20 19:14                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-20 19:44                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 20:11                                                     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21  2:35                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-21  8:48                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 11:10                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-21 11:59                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 12:23                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-23 10:13                                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 20:32                                               ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-21  6:19                                                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21  6:26                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21  7:21                                                     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21  7:25                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21  7:52                                                         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 11:26                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-22 23:55                                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-23  7:04                                                     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-23 17:24                                                       ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-24 20:02                                                         ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-20 21:51                                       ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2023-08-21  8:54                                         ` Type declarations in Elisp (was: [External] : Re: Shrinking the C core) Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21  9:30                                           ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-08-21 11:13                                             ` Type declarations in Elisp Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-21 11:37                                             ` Type declarations in Elisp (was: [External] : Re: Shrinking the C core) Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-22  5:34                                               ` Type declarations in Elisp Gerd Möllmann
2023-08-22  6:16                                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-22 11:14                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-22 23:33                                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-25  9:29                                                     ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-25 20:42                                                       ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-27  8:42                                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 14:04                                                       ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-27 14:07                                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 15:46                                                           ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-27 17:15                                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 18:06                                                               ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-28  9:56                                                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-28 19:06                                                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-18  8:35                               ` Shrinking the C core Aurélien Aptel
2023-08-19 13:32                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-31  1:41                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14  2:36                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-14  4:12                     ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14 11:15                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-12  3:28             ` Christopher Dimech
2023-08-12  3:48               ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-12  3:50               ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-12  6:00                 ` Christopher Dimech
2023-08-12  6:02               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-12  7:38                 ` Christopher Dimech
2023-08-09 12:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-09 16:11   ` Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-09 16:44     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-09 17:57       ` Eric S. Raymond
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2023-08-14  6:28 [PATCH] Re: Bignum performance (was: Shrinking the C core) Gerd Möllmann
2023-08-14  6:56 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-08-14  7:04   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-14  7:35     ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-08-14  8:09       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-14  9:28         ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-08-14  9:42           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-15 14:03             ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-15 15:01               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-15 22:21                 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-15 22:33                 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-16  4:36                   ` tomas
2023-08-16  5:23                     ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14 16:51           ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-15  4:58             ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-08-15 14:20               ` Emanuel Berg

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