From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thierry Volpiatto Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for 'package-isolate' command Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 12:43:59 +0000 Message-ID: <87ttswtsrq.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87r0oftgye.fsf@posteo.net> <87350vt1wz.fsf@posteo.net> <871qgen1ln.fsf@posteo.net> <87edke4mou.fsf@posteo.net> <87wmy6kuan.fsf@posteo.net> <87wmy6w070.fsf@posteo.net> <87zg2sjleg.fsf@posteo.net> <87pm3nlbm7.fsf@posteo.net> <87zg2ri9g9.fsf@posteo.net> <87bkf7b7ls.fsf@posteo.net> <87v8dfi6zy.fsf@posteo.net> <877cpvb361.fsf@posteo.net> <87pm3mj0ot.fsf_-_@posteo.net> <87v8de9qel.fsf@posteo.net> <87pm3mgj8d.fsf@posteo.net> <87a5upojjc.fsf@posteo.net> <871qg1oi61.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1i9fs8v.fsf@posteo.net> <874jkwvs01.fsf@posteo.net> <877cpsvlgm.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20190"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Thierry Volpiatto , Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 18 14:59:26 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qWz4X-000540-N6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 14:59:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWz3v-0005DL-Eq; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:58:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWz0H-0004YQ-HO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:55:01 -0400 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWz0C-0007Wm-HQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:55:01 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82068240103 for ; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 14:54:53 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1692363293; bh=6Aetzx2JlH5LytBOBkSJ8M82umn9qZkWyWrQz+I9ViE=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:From; b=pcpLABoDKagt+Su2Wj9JyN/hAcT9O7VLUKGcjqhlPmei5LB/JOuaMvkaLZtDrSNiE 2Cmib7dP/zNzlgEsVWndHA9c4vX328bFwRcr7dIs/UsQMazi9kKm/CqRaG4CqyI9nD sCKy0a4MI4tcDevkp5DUvMTQpmgrK7KDAucZP3Hq6+UYjEYrT4xivYxNoGMYqnYjIw W8UYW/tFvP+0/jHdj3m+AR9MAHRzbmvFYU4TgDQaTgCWroidgkyDz0upsp7oegINDy H5rup92rvZkjih6EhBzMWSqpWlsfRlycamC7LbSOOjxhgXr8Z42ylzCWlXSbGu6ypH LGMd3K6VjEb8w== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4RS1zw490sz9rxL; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 14:54:52 +0200 (CEST) In-reply-to: <877cpsvlgm.fsf@posteo.net> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=thievol@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:308891 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Philip Kaludercic writes: > Thierry Volpiatto writes: > >> Philip Kaludercic writes: >> >>>> Forget it, it is working properly, just forget you had modified >>>> package--dependencies as well. >>>> Sorry for the noise. >>> >>> It was either that or a new function had to be added, not sure which >>> approach is worse. The current implementation seems to have been >>> hastily added by Lars last year, and it is a bit regrettable in >>> retrospect. It would be possible to modify my change, and have the >>> function always return package-desc objects, since the function is only >>> used in one other spot in another part of the file. While there might >>> be others (packages or individuals) that depend on the function behaving >>> the way it does, but on the other hand, convention designates it as >>> being an "internal" function. >> >> The actual version is something like 4 or 5 lines long, so external >> packages can inline this version under another name if really needed, >> but your version is covering the both so it's ok I think. >> OTOH The problem with package.el is inconsistency within its functions, >> sometimes you have to use a pkg-desc as arg, sometimes not, sometimes >> functions return a list of symbols sometimes a list of pkg-desc, what is >> a package name, a string or a symbol? What is a pkg-desc exactly, >> sometimes it is the cdr in other places the cadr is used... >> Also built-in packages don't have the same format unless they are distri= buted >> in Elpa etc... > > Right, there is certainly work to be done. > >>>> Some packages seems to require a specific version of a package for the= ir >>>> dependency e.g. seq, by excluding it the package may not work correctl= y, >>>> this is my understanding but I may be wrong. Also perhaps the package >>>> e.g. seq is selected later when computing dependencies but maybe user >>>> wants to select a particular version manually in the first place? >>> >>> The current algorithm should pick the first package in the package alist >>> that satisfies the necessary dependencies. Perhaps that should be >>> re-thought or the selection should be more clever, e.g. if the user >>> explicitly specifies a dependency with a version, then it should be >>> preferred to whatever other dependency might be determined, at the >>> possible expense of triggering runtime bugs. >> >> I think it is hard to cover all cases, but after all it is more a >> developer tool for debugging a particular package than a end user tool >> to run packages, so perhaps the developer can give directives about >> dependencies to use when needed. >> >> Another thing, you use actually=20 >> >> (expand-file-name invocation-name invocation-directory) >> >> I suggest you use the truename of this instead as emacs can be symlinked >> in some installations. It should work with the symlink name, but it is >> clearer which emacs version is used. > > I second Eli's question here, what difference would it make? Clearer to > whom? OK, this is not that important. >> Now your function is working fine and nearly finish, did you think how >> you are going to distribute it? It seems you are going to merge it in >> master, but what about providing it as well as a Elpa package so that >> users of old emacs (at some point of course, say emacs-27) can use it to >> report bugs? > > I am not a fan of small ELPA packages, but what I'd like to bring up > again was the proposal to add package.el itself to ELPA. I wrote a > patch in <873559q83j.fsf@posteo.net> that should arrange everything > necessary for this move, there are still a few points that should be > discussed in terms of stability and recovering from a possibly > inconsistent state. I think I'll create a feature branch some day soon > to make the proposal more concrete. Ok, looking forward for having a package-isolate function fetchable for everybody, I will use my own version that fit my needs as a helm action for its package manager. Thanks for your work. =2D-=20 Thierry --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQHHBAEBCgAxFiEEI9twfRN7r3nig/xwDsVtFB0W75MFAmTfahoTHHRoaWV2b2xA cG9zdGVvLm5ldAAKCRAOxW0UHRbvk3SlC/9+ssSiqDlEzF09Pn3Vp/9xZxiJZEdA QeOrpnRJ/T4w/MofemHFK97GKM3/4dTN/zYxaQGjvL8k2M5i3egdvmYRmiuR9f6G rdNWhV16Lh6zdcf418DUeQVd1pxXSjwxV5VW5GIEUzcbRZFrtTcdaB9EMea5pATr kDq4WacS0fSps3oYDFFdTLRtwpGpym+vxMGb8Wa+FQbjYXwBIGmvU911juT+fAnD ZhmNwBT93jx3EHmqoN5vzp52trXSaoR5A0Np3ySTIQMUHtBYXz6obhWOAx1mVeWg YSY/0b8cETn/HrO/iqF8RuuORao+BGiSFAhb5wODVexBWgfVO8Qcixguf8Gqdujw 09RL/kdFMYTFaHiNCFGYeFceiAFm1ahOE83N1IphOLsjuekrFa6i9hO6PbuyHjEQ aVQ/xAagjU8i8YlmpHzLclpmtFXzTZccpXpV3n+6D9Sm37t/dj8iTUu4hAbe+NlE OpbLK2dO+iLCaVLLCG7udexAI3N1BVutMZ4= =J7Le -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--