From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 09:44:08 +0000 Message-ID: <87ttsvmknr.fsf@localhost> References: <87y1u8b1gj.fsf@gmail.com> <8735cgot9x.fsf@gnu.org> <83leq7naql.fsf@gnu.org> <86o7v3ryan.fsf@gmail.com> <87wn9qfyv6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0zy63u3.fsf@localhost> <87h70ufwr1.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j48eg9.fsf@localhost> <83ttsw2oeb.fsf@gnu.org> <87lee889ta.fsf@localhost> <83pm3k2mj2.fsf@gnu.org> <87jztsno4s.fsf@localhost> <83lee737gv.fsf@gnu.org> <87zg2nmmhl.fsf@localhost> <83sf8fz8kn.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2285"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: bzg@gnu.org, yantar92@gmail.com, theophilusx@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 19 11:44:28 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qXIVQ-0000On-Gj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 19 Aug 2023 11:44:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qXIUo-0004lF-2X; Sat, 19 Aug 2023 05:43:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qXIUl-0004kq-Vr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Aug 2023 05:43:48 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qXIUj-0003NU-47 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Aug 2023 05:43:47 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A867240029 for ; Sat, 19 Aug 2023 11:43:41 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1692438221; bh=AMwYLuEhg3NfOB22OhoJAis9tse9x6DG1a0radVMFMk=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:From; b=mQEr/DZQv8N2F2KqpcLuwkBrBuS5ZJk7Z7gTykzUKw2F2BLry3x+JgN6mkrifSWu+ c/eskC223yeEvhFPr4VuqXtYHbyZu5gEeYDLvGWymvffsPZVEEnOfDVdsgmUH1LJem vqTKrGjxUTgn7K+wIBUprhl0/uEon+j5FrugN3UkjRz/tTsV+UB5dezjbYHNxQNXPQ m+1faZMxwC5vFPXyjvuFFsmOLnzr72HOW467Zc25ugpMm6BDS/ip5sOEpSsuEeCJN6 8OAoYjkVZH8vIEBBCIycRWXEROGY/S5NwSOUCo/PXZWlBrtwJLT66fxwdHK9r2xdEv T4iyuBXoboPIw== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4RSYhr2Tkdz9rxG; Sat, 19 Aug 2023 11:43:40 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <83sf8fz8kn.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:308922 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> This may be true in general, but not for Org development. >> People contributing to the Org manual are expected to understand Org >> markup. So, it is Texinfo that becomes the new language to learn and >> that creates an extra contribution barrier. > > If the idea is that the main contributors to the Org documentation are > Org users, and the rest of Emacs developers don't really count for > this purpose, then why did you count the contributions of the latter > to begin with? they should be immaterial for you, AFAIU. They are not immaterial. The work contributed to Org manual by Emacs devs, even if small, is certainly appreciated. However, decision to switch back to .texi is a major one and will affect all the contributors, not just Emacs devs. Thus, I am trying to weight the overall impact on the _Org_ development and maintenance. I looked into git logs specifically to see the contribution pattern of Emacs developers and whether it was influenced by switching from .texi to .org. I only found that Texinfo markup-related contributions disappeared (naturally). Other contributions remained at their levels: typo fixes and enforcing Emacs-wide terminology and wording standards. Neither typo fixes nor enforcing certain terminology uses are limited by the fact that Org manual is not in .texi format. (Correct me if I am wrong). On the other hand, people contributing non-trivial patches for Org manual should naturally be familiar with Org mode. So, using Org markup should not be a handicap for them, while forcing texinfo may sometimes be. That's why, not disregarding Emacs dev contributions, I do not see what positive change switching back to .texi would bring to Org development. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at