From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Brand new clojure support in Emacs ;-) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2023 07:01:19 +0000 Message-ID: <87ttsfr8zk.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87a5uw9ivs.fsf@posteo.net> <87ttt42gna.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87wmy080kn.fsf@posteo.net> <83v8djcydl.fsf@gnu.org> <87350ndquw.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83zg2vav46.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j99304.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87zg2hsyrd.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87h6ontwfv.fsf@posteo.net> <87r0nlngmo.fsf@posteo.net> <87msy8vq6m.fsf@gmail.com> <87jztcrg49.fsf@posteo.net> <87jztc6w42.fsf@gmail.com> <871qfjso94.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="355"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= , Richard Stallman , Danny Freeman , Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel , Manuel Uberti To: =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin?= Le Gouguec Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 31 09:02:13 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qbbgz-000AVk-GK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 09:02:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbbgS-0001Ie-60; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 03:01:40 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbbgK-0001Gf-Ui for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 03:01:33 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbbgF-0007cw-MA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 03:01:32 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2E3C240028 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 09:01:20 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1693465281; bh=tWwCk0pSI0tdZDxWSxm9z/sARQGdoiUCC12SzFJYDKc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Transfer-Encoding:From; b=RsUMPJDlSH/7zTxwgZCDrq+JNznVwlo7hdVuTdwLIKYcqyMVQrlvJlQgyF2SfBpWP 9xCl85OniYtqY+N4SjYBSlSS5uC1qpq6AO8sfrqr9iEmxQzE9KLUjgHakLwOXKepV8 ygtUJl0Yc0CNC2LpPUigtSTl/xCudPMleC5Z8PJgOekXggAp0x4ryQSXNoelyakEIl HgGM9l739nd3BepbjZ4uPHu+xQLSIq5R91jhLLP/Z4Yat6EipG+dANE19a+C3XR+Kp 1/7aarOfCOMtUYeScWtOTYNZ5wUDbxeatbBOSg+nCT3QDVYvdbJ7BC2XN5Qa7V3mqb yzLKfyMLGmGcQ== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4RbsX0198Hz9rxH; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 09:01:20 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <871qfjso94.fsf@gmail.com> (=?utf-8?Q?=22K=C3=A9vin?= Le Gouguec"'s message of "Thu, 31 Aug 2023 08:46:15 +0200") Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; keydata= mDMEZBBQQhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAHJuofBrfqFh12uQu0Yi7mrl525F28eTmwUDflFNmdui0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEDg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkI BwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwulikAEA77hloUiSrXgFkUVJhlKBpLCHUjA0 mWZ9j9w5d08+jVwBAK6c4iGP7j+/PhbkxaEKa4V3MzIl7zJkcNNjHCXmvFcEuDgEZBBQQhIKKwYB BAGXVQEFAQEHQI5NLiLRjZy3OfSt1dhCmFyn+fN/QKELUYQetiaoe+MMAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEE Dg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwukm+wEA8cml4JpK NeAu65rg+auKrPOP6TP/4YWRCTIvuYDm0joBALw98AMz7/qMHvSCeU/hw9PL6u6R2EScxtpKnWof z4oM Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309599 Archived-At: K=C3=A9vin Le Gouguec writes: > Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora writes: > >> Philip Kaludercic writes: >> >>>> Why? If the NonGNU people are "too cool for school" after having been >>>> invited to GNU, why should the GNU project make even more special >>>> accomodations for them? Not up to me to decide anyway. >>> >>> Mainly because this will affect users, not the maintainer.=20=20 >>> [...] >>> Also, I don't see a reason to provoke the Clojure-mode maintainers. I >>> disagree with their reasoning and fear they have been misinformed, but >>> the best way to remedy situations like these is to be understanding and >>> prove ourselves to be cooperative by example (IMO). >> >> You seem to be under the misguided impression that my proposal is meant >> to bother, provoke or help change the minds of the NonGNU Clojure >> maintainers? It's not. >> >> I simply think they shouldn't have a say in how the Emacs project >> answers Richard's original request of a Clojure editing mode in Emacs >> propoer. > > IMHO that is disproportionately combative. Regardless of whether > clojure-mode maintainers contribute to core and/or GNU ELPA, they > contribute to Emacs's continued success by serving their users's needs > and keeping these users invested in Emacs. > > I think they deserve the courtesy of not encroaching if alternatives can > be found; I second Philip's assessment above. > >> As to naming, it's not my call, so let's have Richard chime in. >> clojure-mode, newclojure-mode, etc, I personally don't care, since I'm >> not a Clojure user. > > My 2=C2=A2, as a passive observer, not a Clojure programmer either, whose > only interests lie in (a) alienating as few people as possible (b) > getting dopamine hits from finding specks of consistency amidst chaos: > > * "lisp-clojure-mode", following other "FAMILY-DIALECT-mode" examples > like "makefile-gmake-mode", > > * no specific name (keep the name from the inherited mode, > lisp-data-mode in your example), just a mode-line hint, following > other "FAMILY[DIALECT]" examples like sh-script and > "Shell-script[bash]". I like these ideas as well, even though I am hesitant to call Clojure a Lisp proper ;)