From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: eshell-defgroup. Do we really need this? Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 17:49:01 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <87sykiguzc.fsf__45993.8457854607$1217872198$gmane$org@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <20080729222754.GC2208@muc.de> <86myjx3lt8.fsf@lifelogs.com> <48921019.6030308@gmail.com> <8663qk3g0w.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87y73giryj.fsf@elegiac.orebokech.com> <86iquk1nsk.fsf@lifelogs.com> <878wvgm4mw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <86zlnszql2.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1217872141 27579 80.91.229.12 (4 Aug 2008 17:49:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 17:49:01 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ted Zlatanov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 04 19:49:52 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KQ4Bh-0002vg-CL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 19:49:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60934 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KQ4Al-000441-Q7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:48:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQ49c-0003Xb-0v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:47:32 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQ49a-0003Wc-9L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:47:31 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=43783 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KQ49a-0003WV-07 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:47:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.223]:60678) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KQ49Z-00011f-Ll for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:47:30 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB6F91535B8; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 02:47:19 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 91E1E1A25C3; Thu, 5 Aug 1971 02:47:19 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <86zlnszql2.fsf@lifelogs.com> X-Mailer: VM ?bug? under XEmacs 21.5.21 (x86_64-unknown-linux) Original-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1971 02:47:19 +0900 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:102054 Archived-At: Ted Zlatanov writes: > SJT> Romain's right, you don't need confirmation. If a clean build breaks, > SJT> it's broke. What to do about it is another question. > > Builds can break for many reasons, some local (e.g. disk full). Why > bother many people with a false report? Because they don't happen much in practice on well-maintained 'bots, which is what you want. > It would condition them to ignore truly broken builds. Excuse me, but isn't the problem that they already do?? (Yes, I know that's specious. It's still true. Fix the bigger problem first. :-) "Snappy Answers" aside, and acknowledging that broken builds are taken very seriously by the maintainers, there's a real problem in the Emacs build system. XEmacs and SXEmacs see *way* fewer "broken build" reports, and when we do, the response is almost always that the responsible developer pipes up with "oops, my bad, fixed" within 24 hours. I've *never* seen the kind of "Did you wait until the goat died? You can't start the build before the sacrificial goat is dead!" threads that are so common on emacs-devel. > That's my concern. There are sufficient broken builds in Emacs that that is not a worry. If there is a 'bot spewing because of disk full, sentence the 'bot owner to some public service like reading the entire Collected Works of Richard Stallman (including the source code to all his programs) out loud at the main gate of Microsoft. If and when the rate of disk full reports reaches 10% of the rate of genuine breakage, start forwarding them as bug reports to buildbot. Also, it shouldn't be hard to construct a filter that recognizes such and pings the 'bot owner. If you have access to the Mailman pipeline, it can easily be installed in the list config (ie, without risk to other Mailman lists) and set up to ping only interested parties, and not forward it to the list.