From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: `C-b' is backward-char, `left' is left-char - why? Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2011 22:56:53 +0200 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87sjrq3a7e.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <6F4054004B154CFB8E2753172D316C13@us.oracle.com> <4DE4F8D0.7010800@lanl.gov> <82y61l16bg.fsf@gmail.com> <87vcwo40tn.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <834o48f6sa.fsf@gnu.org> <8762on3rvj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83lixjdkae.fsf@gnu.org> <871uzb3q1d.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83ipsmeu88.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1307135108 19709 80.91.229.12 (3 Jun 2011 21:05:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 21:05:08 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jun 03 23:05:01 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QSbYB-0004YL-Nk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 03 Jun 2011 23:04:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55855 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QSbYA-0002Cf-Pf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 03 Jun 2011 17:04:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:53820) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QSbQa-0000gY-V9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jun 2011 16:57:10 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QSbQZ-0004t3-68 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jun 2011 16:57:08 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:51385) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QSbQY-0004sw-N0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jun 2011 16:57:06 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QSbQX-0000Vl-SE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jun 2011 22:57:05 +0200 Original-Received: from port-83-236-167-122.static.qsc.de ([83.236.167.122]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 03 Jun 2011 22:57:05 +0200 Original-Received: from dak by port-83-236-167-122.static.qsc.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 03 Jun 2011 22:57:05 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 35 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: port-83-236-167-122.static.qsc.de X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:vq6s42AsD+OUxVTLs6ewyHu5x3Y= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:140150 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > The idea is that moves forward when the paragraph direction is > L2R, and moves forward in R2L paragraphs. But they both move > in the reading (a.k.a. "logical") order, which in Emacs means in the > direction of increasing character positions. Moving in strict visual > order (i.e. always left or right on the screen) is also possible, but > less desirable, because that's not the order in which people read the > text. Left/Right are for positioning the cursor. They have nothing to do with the order people read the text in. I don't want my mouse to change direction on RL text. > But what you suggest is neither visual nor logical order, Huh? I suggest visual order. Period. > so it seems to be the worst of both worlds. I have no idea what you are imagining here. > I, for one, have trouble predicting where I will wind up, and need to > think carefully before I give the right answer. That's not a good UI, > IMO. Press left, end up at the next position to the left. Press right, end up at the next position to the right. No need to even recognize whether the glyphs at question are R2L or L2R: the effect is immediately obvious. Without thinking, without even knowing anything about the R2L/L2R properties of the glyphs. forward-character and backward-character require more thinking. -- David Kastrup