From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: BEGIN_SRC..END_SRC Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 20:04:58 +0900 Message-ID: <87sjfcs145.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <871umzrvfw.fsf@gmail.com> <87wr4rqg6g.fsf@gmail.com> <83d36j59gv.fsf@gnu.org> <87r4uz58e3.fsf@sec.modprobe.de> <83aa1n57p4.fsf@gnu.org> <5D17181ED92C4552AE8D4404DD035CA0@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1336388716 27952 80.91.229.3 (7 May 2012 11:05:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 11:05:16 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 07 13:05:15 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SRLkg-0007UC-Pq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 May 2012 13:05:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58725 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SRLkg-0007rf-4P for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 May 2012 07:05:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35454) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SRLkY-0007j9-L7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 May 2012 07:05:12 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SRLkW-0001eQ-6G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 May 2012 07:05:06 -0400 Original-Received: from mgmt1.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.223]:44717) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SRLkV-0001XE-TL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 May 2012 07:05:04 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt1.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C8C13FA0814 for ; Mon, 7 May 2012 20:04:59 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E90F81A351C; Mon, 7 May 2012 20:04:58 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta31) "ginger" 5d3bb1100832 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 130.158.97.223 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:150346 Archived-At: Ted Zlatanov writes: > Please realize Drew is grandstanding about two extra lines in e-mail > messages, *voluntarily* placed there by the author. Top-posting is also a voluntary act of the author, but we don't hesitate to criticize that. I think the right question to ask is whether relaxing the restriction to plain text for the sake of nicer presentation for org-mode/Gnus users is good for Emacs. > [Y]ou may as well complain about *emphasis*, > _underline_, `quote', and such ad-hoc ways to highlight content. Your point about the definition of "markup" is very well-taken; these ad-hoc highlights are indeed markup. However, there is an important difference. A human being has very little trouble detecting code injected into the flow of a narrative text, and authors do format code to look like code, so as to be readable in plain text MUAs. Thus, the org-mode code markers are primarily *presentation* markup for the benefit of programs. On the contrary, it is often impossible (without markup) for human beings to determine where emphasis in plain text is, so (like smileys) such *semantic* markup is for humans, and appropriate in plain text, just as punctuation, such as colons and quotations marks, is appropriate in plain text. Nor is MIME useful for such markup: it can only provide a container (ie, a text/$MARKUP body part) to pass to the actual markup interpreter.