From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Lisp's future Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 16:43:25 +0200 Message-ID: <87siipv1f6.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <87d2ahm3nw.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87zjd9swfj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87oatnqpml.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <874mvdrj45.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20141009044917.GA19957@fencepost.gnu.org> <83lhopisfr.fsf@gnu.org> <87ppe1pldu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <8761ft5wpo.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83k349b0vj.fsf@gnu.org> <83bnph96kh.fsf@gnu.org> <83zjd07ce0.fsf@gnu.org> <834mv76udz.fsf@gnu.org> <837g015roy.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1413384294 25812 80.91.229.3 (15 Oct 2014 14:44:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:44:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, mikegerwitz@gnu.org, mhw@netris.org, dmantipov@yandex.ru, emacs-devel@gnu.org, handa@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, stephen@xemacs.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 15 16:44:46 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XePok-0003VP-CA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 16:44:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45112 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XePoj-0000O4-OL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:44:45 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34891) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XePns-0007rl-5J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:43:53 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XePnr-0003RY-0m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:43:52 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:60082) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XePnq-0003RR-TY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:43:50 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39022 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XePnd-0003TO-Lx; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:43:38 -0400 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 096C5DF336; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 16:43:25 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <837g015roy.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 15 Oct 2014 17:32:45 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:175412 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 09:16:20 -0400 >> From: Richard Stallman >> CC: dak@gnu.org, mikegerwitz@gnu.org, mhw@netris.org, >> dmantipov@yandex.ru, emacs-devel@gnu.org, handa@gnu.org, >> monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, stephen@xemacs.org >> >> I believe the commands that use shell-command-to-string are a good >> example of these cases. That function is frequently used as >> infrastructure to query an external program about something, and the >> result is then used, at least in some cases, to decide how to proceed. >> >> 1. The scenario we've been told about is where the invalid UTF-8 gets >> passed on to some other program. I don't think any harm will come if >> Emacs itself looks at the output of the command. Emacs does not >> generally get confused by raw bytes. > > What Emacs gets from a program it can as easily send to another (or > the same one). > >> 2. It would not be hard to make another function (which does strict >> decoding) to recommend instead of shell-command-to-string for use in >> Lisp code in certain cases. >> >> 3. It would be easy enough to make shell-command-to-string do flexible >> decoding when called interactively and do strict decoding when called >> noninteractively -- controlled through an optional argument. > > I envision complaints from users if we do that. Sounds like a recipe for a non-debuggable security nightmare. Tampering with content that Emacs does not know the meaning of, and doing so differently in non-interactive use is a recipe for making Emacs do unexpected things. -- David Kastrup