From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Nic Ferrier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: package and testing rant (was Re: package.el, auto-installation, and auto-removal) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 17:17:51 +0000 Message-ID: <87sihpirls.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> References: <87a943umku.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87ppcvm7fj.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87vbmndk46.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87wq72ls2h.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <87k332lnn3.fsf_-_@ferrier.me.uk> <87389qklr7.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <83egt9n2qd.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1415726304 10539 80.91.229.3 (11 Nov 2014 17:18:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 17:18:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 11 18:18:16 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XoF54-0002Pj-04 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:18:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49963 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XoF53-0001V3-DX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:18:13 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39513) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XoF4v-0001UG-ND for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:18:11 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XoF4p-0004q8-PL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:18:05 -0500 Original-Received: from static.17.66.46.78.clients.your-server.de ([78.46.66.17]:55598 helo=po1.ferrier.me.uk) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XoF4j-0004i4-1f; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:17:53 -0500 Original-Received: from nicferrier-dell-xps (140.35.155.90.in-addr.arpa [90.155.35.140]) by po1.ferrier.me.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 9F9C3AC0AD0; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:36:14 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from nicferrier-XPS13-9333 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nicferrier-dell-xps (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A5366BA00; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 17:17:51 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <83egt9n2qd.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:03:54 +0200") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 78.46.66.17 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:176764 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Please let's not forget that most users of ELPA are not developers, > they are users. For a user, it's an annoyance when fetching a package > requires to "build" it, especially if that "build" stage requires > extra tools (beyond Emacs itself) and other dependencies, let alone > dealing with possible error messages, failure to build, etc. No one is arguing for that. I am NOT arguing for that. Build is something package authors SHOULD do. Build is something package authors for elpa.git do not do currently and that inconveniences users in the end because authors won't test and the packages will be broken. This happens often now with MELPA. > Sacrificing user convenience of installing a package to make our lives > as developers easier sounds backwards to me. So, from my POV, the > ideal should be "no build stage", and the only files to be generated > during the installation should be those that Emacs can do itself, as > part of the fetching and installation. No one is saying that.