From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alexis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Is EDE only intended to be used with languages which /require/ a 'compile' step? [was: Re: IDE] Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 19:46:14 +1100 Message-ID: <87si53gujt.fsf@gmail.com> References: <5610207A.2000300@harpegolden.net> <83fv1r3gzp.fsf@gnu.org> <83bncf3f9k.fsf@gnu.org> <5610E0BC.8090902@online.de> <83si5r106e.fsf@gnu.org> <831td9z18h.fsf@gnu.org> <5612E996.7090700@yandex.ru> <83bnc7tavr.fsf@gnu.org> <5618C92A.3040207@yandex.ru> <83a8rrt9ag.fsf@gnu.org> <5618D376.1080700@yandex.ru> <831td3t62e.fsf@gnu.org> <561A6199.1020901@cumego.com> <561B9D87.70504@yandex.ru> <561C2C17.3090503@cumego.com> <561DC1CA.6090901@siege-engine.com> <561E3FB6.8010407@yandex.ru> <561EEFDE.7000809@gmail.com> <561F29D0.3070605@yandex.ru> <561FA79C.30207@gmail.com> <56200D07.30206@yandex.ru> <5620A99E.7080009@cumego.com> <5621AE14.8040004@gmail.com> <878u72tbw4.fsf@gmail.com> <562256AB.4010906@siege-engine.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1445503626 14028 80.91.229.3 (22 Oct 2015 08:47:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:47:06 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 22 10:46:49 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpBWK-0008N0-Ld for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:46:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57876 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpBWK-0006SC-66 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 04:46:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48103) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpBVx-0006Mg-EA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 04:46:26 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpBVt-0003NY-8c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 04:46:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x236.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::236]:36488) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpBVt-0003Mp-41 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 04:46:21 -0400 Original-Received: by pacfv9 with SMTP id fv9so85044834pac.3 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 01:46:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type; bh=pFR0bkXVPaR97+JVgy2AaYtjxmwmhMjFxqVuV3XJP5c=; b=n3astxMZayevP1+0CUNoXcmZAHENFF3IPXejPgF5OuJPvSBk3Y8rtTy3II9Q+qjq08 de1QbaIftwdBour+kcfmUxVqlvvap2BnYc6tfi54aisg6mljOB3u6p8CpLdPYoK7L0bK p10kYANLaGOtR7VcOQ1967pfcJ2O/+DrRb791KF3/Yzbf91Ylw45VSuIP6L5jPlQETo2 2q5yNc6q/Su6NqjK0Xuuxtp+DvS/qvbfm3V/PZSKYhNebp0G2zSIQJfRdcp9YlXrzx5V r83Swo4YJCs9H8GZAbjDYiEDtFstlDeFnYbbGL6JgSD9RHnpbudESAXb8QlZ+crDyPtY 3vdg== X-Received: by 10.66.66.166 with SMTP id g6mr15945859pat.152.1445503580166; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 01:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (CPE-58-161-15-29.cqqy2.win.bigpond.net.au. [58.161.15.29]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id yp5sm11255327pac.38.2015.10.22.01.46.18 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 22 Oct 2015 01:46:18 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <562256AB.4010906@siege-engine.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::236 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:192356 Archived-At: Eric Ludlam writes: > EDE's original intent was for handling compilation of compiled > languages. Since then, it also forms a base for anything that > wants to organize code into a 'project' so that support code > can say "what is the current project" and then "does that > project have a language specific detail I can use". It doesn't > really matter if it compiles or not. Thank you for clarifying! i would like to suggest that the EDE documentation be modified to reflect this. For example, the opening paragraph of the EDE Info manual says: "EDE is the Emacs Development Environment: an Emacs extension that simplifies building and debugging programs in Emacs. It attempts to emulate a typical IDE (Integrated Development Environment). EDE can manage or create your makefiles and other building environment duties" The third sentence could instead say something along the lines of: "EDE can help you manage your software projects and any build environments they might have (such as, for example, Makefiles) ..." Additionally, the "Quick Start" section of the manual could have an extra example added, about creating a project in a language that doesn't require a distinct compile step, nor a Makefile (for example, a Python project). Modifications such as the preceding might help make it immediately clear to potential EDE users that EDE is not solely for people programming in C, C++, Objective-C, or compilation-requiring languages such as Java, Ada or Haskell. Ranking the extent of usage of various programming languages is, of course, fraught with methodological issues, but not only the TIOBE ranking: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html but also the January 2015 Redmonk ranking: http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2015/01/14/language-rankings-1-15/ and a 2014 IEEE ranking: http://spectrum.ieee.org/static/interactive-the-top-programming-languages puts JavaScript, Python, PHP and Ruby amongst the current top 10 programming languages. i feel that if Emacs is to work towards becoming a more general-purpose IDE "out of the box", we should avoid giving programmers of such languages the impression that the tools provided by Emacs are Not Relevant. Alexis.