From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Heerdegen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: The poor state of documentation of pcase like things. Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2016 03:05:01 +0100 Message-ID: <87si2enlpu.fsf@web.de> References: <20151216202605.GA3752@acm.fritz.box> <87io3m60bq.fsf@web.de> <877fk1nnk0.fsf@web.de> <8760zlue3j.fsf@gmail.com> <87vb7kajgv.fsf@web.de> <83y4c9ag06.fsf@gnu.org> <87bn95m9eg.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <5686CDFB.2010105@dancol.org> <83fuygcs5g.fsf@gnu.org> <87r3i0l6oq.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87si2fwm38.fsf@web.de> <83twmv9vh5.fsf@gnu.org> <87si2fxpgj.fsf@web.de> <83lh86adga.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1451873131 27059 80.91.229.3 (4 Jan 2016 02:05:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 02:05:31 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 04 03:05:22 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aFuWP-0006mn-7r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2016 03:05:21 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43571 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFuWO-000363-Dx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 21:05:20 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38482) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFuWL-00035g-Jf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 21:05:18 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFuWI-0002os-AP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 21:05:17 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:54928) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFuWI-0002oH-2x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 21:05:14 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aFuWG-0006fH-6g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2016 03:05:12 +0100 Original-Received: from ip-90-186-0-84.web.vodafone.de ([90.186.0.84]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 04 Jan 2016 03:05:12 +0100 Original-Received: from michael_heerdegen by ip-90-186-0-84.web.vodafone.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 04 Jan 2016 03:05:12 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 49 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-90-186-0-84.web.vodafone.de User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:NWZgHw5zLkVra8SIQ6yD4E1ojPE= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:197558 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > including a long dispute about whether it would be better to quote _. > > > > Yes, and...??? > > And that was IMO a clear indication that even the tiniest syntax > issues related to 'pcase' raise problems. If the fact that some people suggested to make it possible to leave out a comma counts as a relevant problem or bug, I must say I'm surprised how well this quite new thing works, after all, a complete new library. The syntax still has been changed by Stefan himself recently, so it's normal that we still discuss it, even when we didn't find a conclusion. > If the semantics are not clear, the syntax is the first suspect. > > > Using such a beast where it is not required makes reading harder > > > because it requires the reader to understand its syntax, if nothing > > > else. > > > > And that's the real problem: (some) people refrain to try to understand > > the syntax and prefer to complain. > > That's not my concern. I'm not one of those people. Ok. So, what aspect of the semantics did you find not clear after reading the documentation we currently have? > > Sorry, I give up. pcase seems to scare off people somehow. If 50 > > percent of the people are not able to cope with the thing, for whatever > > reason, and get stalled whenever they see it, I think we probably can't > > use it. A pity. > > I never said anything even close to such an extreme. I don't think > there's any danger of refraining to use 'pcase' any time soon. It > does its job well, and where it's needed, it should definitely be > used. That sounds somewhat different from what you said previously ("beast", your conclusions about the discussion that the thing is "weird", etc). Regards, Michael.