From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What improvements would be truly useful? Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2018 11:02:35 +0000 Message-ID: <87sh998qb8.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <87inaiss6l.fsf@web.de> <6FCF6ACA-4F29-4B6B-BE9D-D7130C6E9495@gnu.org> <87fu5moe4c.fsf@web.de> <877eqyocro.fsf@web.de> <83zi3uz4nb.fsf@gnu.org> <0b1dd3fa-e0b0-ed20-a256-dd92d1c1826f@dancol.org> <8bc3c4c7-dfc7-987a-95e7-bd309e2326c6@cs.ucla.edu> <03118DC0-39DA-4AB5-980E-A33809B9A5EE@raeburn.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1520594539 10582 195.159.176.226 (9 Mar 2018 11:22:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 11:22:19 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.91 (gnu/linux) Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, raeburn@raeburn.org, dancol@dancol.org, Rostislav Svoboda , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 09 12:22:15 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1euG6F-0002Yx-0l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2018 12:22:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44558 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1euG8G-0007Xs-5d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2018 06:24:16 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47477) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1euG7M-0007Vj-Qf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2018 06:23:21 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1euG7L-0001fW-53 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2018 06:23:20 -0500 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:38941) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1euG7J-0001Ug-DL; Fri, 09 Mar 2018 06:23:17 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID :Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=F53OMjPFOZuxD3Q+zzTqAHnrCgt8HzU1etrmGhWK9PI=; b=mGhX1BGydcHuok78+mm5NQW+S tTRADEwxWutv146NkSNnmyjOIyh6Y5OEKwxJt0z9TF31CFmN5K240TpzajJ13CK5lnzBF0VDx2rj0 Nf0kNf56prmMJ3hjYIl0D/tBvA6uh8ZkYMBvz6Kul3czq+kfGssJ5L64CaDQ+m/W9fLxAKOZ403Nc e7+6uyvLQVx/PpbgbXgZ/B4DgzXOAmLtE3JYs7a/XfdgVOBJAfkvels75s+GoaV7z4sx4vpHicjFW 3TYgl6Q6Tiq5s+/B5b7nZLNE3e2HhbhfGNtLTvB1hGRXwNSg7OM90ZUcLL4XpMqOrKRBGyZXd5MYT hzTdi84AA==; Original-Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-124.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.124]:53465 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89_1) (envelope-from ) id 1euG6Y-0038wu-J4; Fri, 09 Mar 2018 11:22:30 +0000 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Mon, 05 Mar 2018 18:05:10 -0500") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 78.129.138.110 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:223534 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > IMO the future of GUI apps and in our case editors, lies in browser > > based frameworks programmable by some lisp dialect. For the moment it > > would be a stack based on electron, clojurescript, codemirror, etc. > > I have a feeling we are talking about totally unrelated questions. > I'm talking about extending Emacs to edit more kinds of _documents_. > Documents with more and different layout features, but still _documents_. > > A document is a self-contained file of declarative data that you can > display and edit on your computer, without any sort of network > connection. And if you send it to me, I can display it too > and it looks the same for me as for you. No, it really isn't. A document is a user-centric feature -- it's a piece of work that stores information in a way that it useful to the user. The self-contained file notion is a developer issue. And, document editing has moved partially (although not wholly) away from the "your computer". People edit documents in editors built entirely on the web. To show it to you, I just send the link. Following your definition, MS Word becomes a document editor and MS Word Online does not. Phil