From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: RFC: Adding BBDB to Emacs core Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2018 22:20:14 +0100 Message-ID: <87sh7wi2up.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <3ovactap4b.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1523827145 24439 195.159.176.226 (15 Apr 2018 21:19:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2018 21:19:05 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.91 (gnu/linux) Cc: Thomas Fitzsimmons , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Glenn Morris Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 15 23:19:01 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f7p36-0006CK-U4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2018 23:19:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44004 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f7p5D-0006j4-4Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2018 17:21:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53519) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f7p55-0006ic-PQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2018 17:21:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f7p54-0006k0-OE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2018 17:21:03 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:57747) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f7p4y-0005os-Us; Sun, 15 Apr 2018 17:20:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=tlqmahrZDPuq9tmGn9VZhGbAt8v7Qp8z9UVOKuK7sPM=; b=yUTG3Sb1nkIXkOueY9Pg4WL1u w5EvcpgvJYPGGBeTuI5D0oKEDhFA6qpxuS7P285WHPDcd9VTwth2OqTrgB2eQdFSIZxHyYDMF/465 D4R82Y1JHQOi9lNn1/Cdt+1NgGbssV71W1C67tsTqKUiazkQEybBgWw99vaDrliTQ6xZKgEYkuyre iGGw7QJFFRzJ7aodL47ZuyhNPdZCbcK8Gcms3m14t86XZbXqDPmurMdomtaFPHwzN3t3hfuIx4bgB aNjVD+V7ZNhYqpYD+OQq+1yt6ntueYclb4zv//PF50LdFTzWJX/dvvYtVSEVpCBnGdfqEdaP295S/ 7q60zmwtg==; Original-Received: from cpc142652-benw12-2-0-cust953.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([82.21.43.186]:53994 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89_1) (envelope-from ) id 1f7p4I-001AJu-6F; Sun, 15 Apr 2018 21:20:14 +0000 In-Reply-To: <3ovactap4b.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (Glenn Morris's message of "Sat, 14 Apr 2018 09:34:12 -0400") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 78.129.138.110 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:224625 Archived-At: Glenn Morris writes: >> I'd like BBDB to become the default out-of-the-box local contact >> management library for GNU Emacs, in particular so that Gnus/EUDC/BBDB >> work together to provide email completion and snarfing out-of-the-box, >> without extra configuration or package installation. > > If GNU ELPA is a first-class citizen, then all the above can happen > without adding yet more stuff to the main Emacs repo. (Wistfully > thinking here yet again of the project to bundle GNU ELPA packages with > Emacs releases...) I've part-written two different versions of this, both in git. They work in different ways; but ultimately, I think we need to decide what "ELPA as a first-class citizen" actually means. This version: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/log/?h=elparized-core for example, just pulls out parts of ELPA using git magic, and copies the files into core. Simple, straight-forward and it works. But, ultimately, will it make maintaining core more easy? In the end, I think not, because it is essentially an ad-hoc way of tying together emacs.git and elpa.git. This version: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/log/?h=feature/integrated-elpa uses package.el during the build process of Emacs, so that ELPA packages could be added as packages. It requires more work. In the end, my own feeling is that this is the right way. We could dramatically slim down core Emacs to be enough to run package.el. The release would then be "core plus what ever packages we think are important at the time". This would decrease the complexity of the emacs git. But it might increase the complexity of the release process, since you'd be dependent on multiple other packages. I think ELPA and package.el need to be able to cope with multiple versions of the same package, supporting different versions of Emacs for this to work. Phil