From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Joost Kremers Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Why is emacs so square?" 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247568 Archived-At: On Thu, Apr 23 2020, Richard Stallman wrote: > It appears that what people call "Org mode" is a collection of=20 > diverse > features, and what they have in common is use of a certain=20 > format of > the text. Is that right? That sounds just about right, yes. > I have to question the practice of treating these diverse=20 > features > conceptually as a single mode. Although I still don't know what=20 > those > features are, if one of them is a word processor and the others=20 > are not, > they are too different to make sense conceptually that way. The practice has probably arisen historically, but IMHO it still=20 makes sense to do so now, because probably Org's biggest strength=20 is that the various features are tightly integrated. That doesn't=20 mean you couldn't use Org for just one of its features, you=20 definitely could, but the beauty of the system is that the=20 different features aren't strictly separated. For example, Org can be used as an agenda, to keep track of your=20 appointments, daily schedule, etc., much like Google Calendar and=20 other such offerings. At the same time, you can use Org to write=20 your papers. Now, you would normally keep your appointments in one file, say=20 =3Dagenda.org=3D, and the paper you're working on in another file, say=20 =3Dpaper.org=3D. So far, so uninteresting. But with Org you can put=20 TODO notes in =3Dpaper.org=3D, add deadlines, date and time stamps,=20 etc., anything Org supports. Then, when you display your agenda=20 (i.e., run a function that takes the contents of, in this example,=20 =3Dagenda.org=3D, and creates a nice overview of it in an agenda-like=20 fashion), you can have the TODO items, deadlines etc. from=20 =3Dpaper.org=3D included in this overview automatically. Try that with=20 Google Calendar. This is just one example, but it illustrates the whole point of=20 Org: the system has many different features, and they all work=20 together. > It would make more sense to call them various different modes.=20 > That > they all use a certain way of formatting the text may not be=20 > important > to mention. Actually, it's crucial to mention that. You might say it's Org's=20 raison d'=C3=AAtre. It's what makes integrating all of Org's functions=20 so tightly possible. > In other words, if we don't let the concept of "Org mode" shape=20 > our thinking, > we might thing of these features differently. I think it would certainly help newbies getting started with Org=20 to document its features separately. Eli's suggestions for=20 restructuring the Org manual sound very good. I had a difficult=20 time getting started with Org myself, and I can relate very well=20 to the impressions that you and Eli describe. But at the same time it should be made clear from the outset that=20 Org's strength lies in its integration. I mean, I could use=20 Markdown with Pandoc to write my papers, *cough* Google Calendar=20 *cough* to keep track of my appointments, Jupyter for keeping=20 programming notebooks and *cough* Evernote *cough* to keep notes,=20 but there would be no way to link all of that. With Org, there is. --=20 Joost Kremers Life has its moments