From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Phillip Lord Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs Date: Tue, 05 May 2020 23:05:52 +0100 Message-ID: <87sggeca0v.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <266155d4-f9c0-8ed3-8df5-32feea171076@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="66432"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.90 (gnu/linux) Cc: Dmitry Gutov , Stefan Monnier , Emacs developers To: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed May 06 00:06:31 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jW5hv-000HCZ-OL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 May 2020 00:06:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46638 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jW5hu-0003Q7-Np for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 05 May 2020 18:06:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36308) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jW5hO-0002zp-P8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 May 2020 18:05:58 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:37046) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jW5hN-0002rX-9Q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 May 2020 18:05:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender :Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help: List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=7VIMlFgJIrzYquGUUXkQHyPjHbuqcGo4iCIOVljmn98=; b=uH/UNbRdNHVNivU4J7Ioujqxkk /DFELPC3h+vEnpylx7fFoqolavRFRnc8Ropk5mSSo002XwZZaxJTYtDcfz7jAvQ0ytPwnnXmxNrlI B0VqeAxt9rVXTb0dATuNvP3oZuDYnbQtxA1yMW0RKWtpp3MHT8fk4qoFCsiqxS9G6AcHRo1v7tgLP 9khsSBrygnD8ARKaf1s6qxkDLKDEjlPEYoFF4BrpaYU+g++BuC+x3ujhchIblSctdoXn3SQpl4rEz 7SSuE5CzebLYjHlWSSPPlp/n4Tl6tF36UmvIi0OcLdmArdpa5DZcvzZOqEVxOiLwYzEagyCJYbdrr HeimjXaA==; Original-Received: from cpc142652-benw12-2-0-cust953.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([82.21.43.186]:33686 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1jW5hJ-00012x-M5; Tue, 05 May 2020 23:05:53 +0100 In-Reply-To: (=?utf-8?Q?=22Jo=C3=A3o_T=C3=A1vora=22's?= message of "Sat, 2 May 2020 00:23:45 +0100") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Received-SPF: none client-ip=78.129.138.110; envelope-from=phillip.lord@russet.org.uk; helo=cloud103.planethippo.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/05 16:27:19 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249054 Archived-At: Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora writes: > On Fri, May 1, 2020 at 7:09 PM Stefan Monnier = wrote: >> >> > Just wanted to voice my support for exactly the points that Dmitry mak= es. >> > And if we do add it to Elpa, can we give it a slightly longer prefix? = Like >> > 'cljstr`? >> >> I don't think renaming it will fly. We should definitely add it to GNU >> ELPA because it's used by many other Elisp packages. But renaming would >> be self-defeating some all those packages won't want to go through >> the renaming. > > Well none of those users of s.el are in GNU Elpa, right? They could > trivially rename to use cjstring.el, or string.el. > > To be clear, I don't oppose the inclusion of those functions/macros > especially if they really are advantageous (but are they really?). What > I really don't like about this and the dash.el library is that it takes up > such a prominent place in the shared namespace, because of the > very short prefix. Perhaps this argument is a bit reactionary, but then > again s.el seems a bit /arriviste/ in that regard (likely unintentionally= ). > If we had a package system, ideally one with local nicknames, > this would all be moot, I think. s.el is a big short, and dash even more so. But, to be honest, I prefer dash over seq.el because it is short. It's double dash macros are also really nice. Obviously, there is a potential for disaster here, but I would argue that if this was going to happen it would have already. Of the top of my head, there is dash, s.el, f.el (for files), kv (for key value). If emacs had a namespace prefix policy, which it doesn't, I would reserve one letter and maybe two letter prefixes for nice APIs for common things. We'd still have a problem if Emacs had full namespaces right? Packages always hog the high value namespace. Phil