From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: David Engster Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: ELPA policy Date: Sat, 09 May 2020 12:13:01 +0200 Message-ID: <87sgg95scy.fsf@randomsample> References: <0c88192c-3c33-46ed-95cb-b4c6928016e3@default> <83zhaij4qn.fsf@gnu.org> <835zd6ihns.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7wphblf.fsf@gnu.org> <875zd57e7e.fsf@randomsample> <837dxlh77o.fsf@gnu.org> <871rnt7cbd.fsf@randomsample> <834ksph5ss.fsf@gnu.org> <87wo5l5whg.fsf@randomsample> <831rnth29c.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="83551"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.91 (gnu/linux) Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 09 12:13:38 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jXMUC-000Laj-JY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 12:13:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44378 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXMUB-0006Vi-LG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 06:13:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38516) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXMTj-000630-8t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 06:13:07 -0400 Original-Received: from zplane.randomsample.de ([2a03:4000:42:1a1:9400:eeff:feb4:c8a0]:57310) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXMTh-0005S5-VM; Sat, 09 May 2020 06:13:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=randomsample.de; s=a; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date: References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=JKUJ10Mfv2EU78ipAp9NYHkEQ5DhhUVORooaxC1jPTQ=; b=HVzI/okvnezFd50FEX40GQxKh 8F6q0myO2fuKO/N3IuZ71zDfnvMm3Z3eDwx7Y7d3WiVsbbNpQuHrhf4DRqjIGRe42a4AaOYlw4W0e 1ffbbwxRjRcRzmL4sA/p7zxXQ4Jt7hrzJpuIiOUiXTg4RoyZ0PWnceAOjbBULniuS4a/Swsf0iaaF ojpV/GCNegZOmuXFucltu0ZXCbYx+cE9ETxs1n1MDvnxVB2VxYLGkvnJb6QhvMbwIZ8rBn4bskSVU MNb7EsnAxZNktvFPv8XeC4VnDVe0ELGo48mAM4KyaaLT7J6A1zE0MzKADpbu8d4FPYPEK9a4kl00s Eji6ig6rw==; Original-Received: from [95.90.186.238] (helo=void) by zplane.randomsample.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jXMTe-0001QC-0p; Sat, 09 May 2020 12:13:02 +0200 In-Reply-To: <831rnth29c.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 09 May 2020 12:43:43 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a03:4000:42:1a1:9400:eeff:feb4:c8a0; envelope-from=deng@randomsample.de; helo=zplane.randomsample.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/09 03:35:57 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = ??? X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249389 Archived-At: >> From: David Engster >> Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Sat, 09 May 2020 10:43:55 +0200 > >> >> > If we are going to drop requirements, then what will distinguish ELPA >> > from MELPA? And what's the problem with having non-core packages >> > available through MELPA, anyway? why do we need to have them in ELPA? >> >> In principal, I agree with you. The problem is mainly Richard's stance >> on this issue, which says that we must not recommend packages which are >> not in Emacs or GNU ELPA, but that we should rather re-implement them. I >> think that's a terrible waste. > > Is this only about "recommending" or not "recommending" a package? Is > this why we created GNU ELPA and invest non-trivial amount of effort > in maintaining and developing it? I very much hope there's more to > it than just that. We created GNU ELPA because we wanted a package system in Emacs. It was simply the first, then things evolved to the state we have now, where MELPA is the dominant package repository. > I could understand if you'd say "use" instead of "recommend", > i.e. have code in Emacs, which, if a package is installed, would use > it. That'd actually have the package's name in our sources, and would > constitute some kind of "endorsement". But as long as we don't use > any of those packages, why should we care what other people like or > don't like? Sorry, but you lost me there. All I'm saying is that there's a whole lot of terrific packages out there but which we must not recommend to users, although they are free software and often vastly superior to the things that are built into Emacs. For instance, there's a discussion going on about making a video showing Emacs' capabilities, but I assume we'd not be allowed to show Magit. That's a huge loss. -David