From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Phillip Lord Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [feature/dll-only-windows] A new windows build, comments wanted Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 18:29:08 +0000 Message-ID: <87sg77tjij.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <87pn2dq3xv.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83ft39hnk1.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7nppzjy.fsf@russet.org.uk> <838s90hhb6.fsf@gnu.org> <87zh1gircl.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83turofw8r.fsf@gnu.org> <87ft377q0u.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83h7nnfqig.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16773"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1.90 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 11 19:31:07 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kz1y6-0004H6-CV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 19:31:06 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34572 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kz1y5-0006Do-DC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 13:31:05 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39878) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kz1wJ-0005G3-Ec for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 13:29:17 -0500 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:38276) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kz1wG-0001zP-Pb; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 13:29:15 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=s0v+HWWKIhzI/yDmo6hk7jH9UwHzA5cHtiB0Ha7icY0=; b=x3DSfwnfhIDWXy58qfROQ0ooY huB/sSOQ28uXuaqyp6iYyOTkfRH/1VsAIdm1yOZNVoGD99GMpzfTB1s+muHCOTZB2ah5+5oXL+J0/ DZqYL1dcCMmTuV/+F0D8lof4/o4AihJbEd5YSXo0Yn/CRG/MQbC59Mg3ff8yD/iUE7aWFkY8Lxii8 mvcHXMEkl1V3AS6CIEW81G4V+kUQhDyLUFDgl0OQSBnjcHQCCx9GxD51xBLB1K6AM+9TAJARQaHf3 yiAIh2FbKa6aKPJ97CbFReCdMdbUF4cVPEVZcj7KNr6Vmd1r3I4IsIT96Ywv0FvQH3And9+R5AJAT 7BvEAUXOQ==; Original-Received: from cpc142648-benw12-2-0-cust627.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([82.10.74.116]:44830 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1kz1wC-0000oz-Rh; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 18:29:08 +0000 In-Reply-To: <83h7nnfqig.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 11 Jan 2021 17:21:43 +0200") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Received-SPF: none client-ip=78.129.138.110; envelope-from=phillip.lord@russet.org.uk; helo=cloud103.planethippo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:262926 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Phillip Lord >> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 09:59:29 +0000 >> >> > It's your call. I just envision many users to expect native-comp >> > support and asking why isn't it there. >> >> No, you misunderstand me. I would plan to make Emacs-28 >> --with-nativecomp. But if I am doing this for the windows build, it is >> reasonable to assume that other packagers will be doing for their >> builds. > > Not necessarily: on platforms other than MS-Windows, if Emacs was > linked against some optional library, that library must be installed > for Emacs to run without crashing. > > So on MS-Windows you could build Emacs with all the possible > extensions, and let users decide which ones they want to install and > use. The installer version could support that kind of thing, but I don't want to provide too many options for the sake of confusion. The sort of people who do not want features can probably build Emacs for themselves. > >> > The gzip thing is again your call (having gzip in the package is no >> > big deal, IMO). Dbus is not really useful on MS-Windows, so IMO it >> > makes no sense building with it. >> >> We've been down this road before. > > Did we reach any conclusions? Yes, we concluded that it was hard to know where to stop! > >> I could add gzip and I am happy to consider this. But what other >> tools do we add. What about aspell (or equivalent), so we can spell >> check? Git so we can version? If I add them, then we get more >> "out-of-the-box" behaviour. But where do we stop. > > We stop where you decide to stop. (And the utility of aspell is much > smaller than that of gzip, btw. And the complexity of aspell > installation is OTOH significantly greater.) There's no need for any > consistency here. "Consistency is the hobgoblin", and all that. I think that this is wrong. Gzip is minimal use on Windows, except for info files, and the total install file size is 18Mb vs 5Mb. Compare to aspell (or hunspell) for the people installing Emacs to use Org mode? Or git for those who want to use magit. I think it would be even better (i.e. potentially quicker!) if we could access these as libraries. Still, if the number of total downloads has decreased, adding a set of command line utilities as extra options in the installer might be worth considering. I will cogitate. Phil