From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: scratch/command 064f146 1/2: Change command to interactive ... modes Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 19:42:59 +0100 Message-ID: <87sg5ua630.fsf@telefonica.net> References: <20210213141225.11309.86562@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <8735xwvusc.fsf@gnus.org> <83v9as7xns.fsf@gnu.org> <87pn10ueld.fsf@gnus.org> <83r1lf9apm.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6s3vrnd.fsf@gnus.org> <83o8gj9a8o.fsf@gnu.org> <871rdfvq86.fsf@gnus.org> <83h7mb98g8.fsf@gnu.org> <87o8gjuaez.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1v97bk.fsf@gnu.org> <877dn7u7wq.fsf@gnus.org> <835z2r94zw.fsf@gnu.org> <831rdf91r1.fsf@gnu.org> <87ft1vsmf5.fsf@gnus.org> <664f975c-9770-6d58-28be-d1bc8cd6bca5@yandex.ru> <87v9arr65g.fsf@gnus.org> <871rdfdnz7.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <874kiaobzn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="22573"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:8pKHzTUWdMWTvQyPhtjonQ0bbpI= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 17 19:44:12 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lCRo4-0005mL-P8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 19:44:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40506 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lCRo3-0000ds-Qr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 13:44:11 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37652) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lCRn1-0007oL-B6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 13:43:07 -0500 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:50032) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lCRmz-0004Bt-JQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 13:43:07 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lCRmx-0004WU-OP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 19:43:03 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:265045 Archived-At: Juri Linkov writes: >>>>> As for verbosity, it's not like there weren't any suggestions to >>>>> reduce the number of annotations either (like tying command >>>>> definitions to packages, or custom groups, etc). >>>> >>>> And I responded to all of those and said why I thought those were bad >>>> ideas. >>> >>> Then why we are removing :group tags from defcustom? Because they are redundant. >>> Completion annotations are redundant the same way. >> >> Not exactly in the same way, because the overwhelmingly most common case >> with :group tags is that all defcustoms in one file share the same group. >> >> With completion annotations, we have seen ratios from 50-75 %. > > I don't know where you see such low ratios. In a typical package like > gomoku.el there are 16 commands tagged with 'gomoku-mode', and 2 untagged. > This is 90% vs 10%. > > It makes more sense to make tagging opt-out, i.e. to tag the whole package > like defgroup does. Then tag only a few commands available globally. > > Usually most commands in a package are internal, only a few of commands are > entry points. Package entry points are usually tagged with the autoload cookie. > > So only 10% of entry points need the `declare' tag, other 90% don't need any tagging. As mentioned elsewhere, tagging is far from being a simple task. Each command must be considered individually. Your example about gomoku is not representative as it is an small, isolated package, i.e. you won't use gomoku-* elsewhere outside gomoku, except for the entry point(s), of course. The statistics Lars posted about Gnus are telling: only about 6 of every 10 commands were tagged. I expect to see similar numbers on other large packages, such as Org and Calc.