From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Abysmal state of GTK build Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 20:29:30 +0800 Message-ID: <87sfln6t3p.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <8735dn30if.fsf@gmail.com> <87pmgr8m3t.fsf@yahoo.com> <83pmgr88sk.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5009"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) Cc: relekarpayas@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org, gregory@heytings.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 23 14:33:54 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oQT6P-00019a-H4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 14:33:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50686 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQT6O-00055d-GG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 08:33:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37334) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQT2R-0003fo-6M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 08:29:48 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic308-56.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.187.31]:42327) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQT2O-0003O5-AZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 08:29:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1661257779; bh=u4Uuu60/UmF5VOujmzK1ct0d8qnBAApaPHzsJKuGc0w=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=JDXg0dUkG7OCELkCgtZWe5VZQkxbVLR9zOVbwYAeiaX+Tiq/+51MVIRIOnIV/3bP0cgFhHes7aPZKk+ST7/ePwylKH38XsRihxL18cWacv+2yOZcGjh6mFGDp46xiZsKnYe3WelJH8HZtrsKFzs2so37dTKA4c8zV5z1QiPbNVNWtw7SXHuGxDilnAp/X2ZCiIkB79lXe57sKUD9KbKhLzVElXuLhgQfKZWHDy0d30ts7n9wnHB7nH+OE3u2ErjITOn80PAaR39AC8uSgqeqoOVAT/zZPbz0OMRwDs2ihcNa/W8wFOp1xnKclaCoUqJc1a64hjFnHRetgb8pjSN/qQ== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1661257779; bh=zalK6rkJp7iENkC5vI0kqSAdC4Surzk0J0ncnC4Z7zw=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=s35+iEG6Kq0ZXuJIcVfwOkbRSGReSrOsmJ3K1N7vq6S7JcpoHQywPcGlgEMlh6d2uPyFW1AlnZO8N7mb0zDLDctTzx1Ih1pbhOmPTsCpxN/yGNCLLxTBfcxfle7qlYzHYlMOxgHiAECNvCbhS7gW3SHdV04DDjBEb3S+O6pJWRMvW5Yb5/3Rf5wBkij/vyAzZYDPCJ+d17+0V1KbH2Xw38XeAWUd5j2Axz0OJNGyhQYtEuMlEtksfS7ye7Y0KSFoMIUNcrht02W1vEpXJd3jS3l3zcBVGnHaw17chBVqy13P7Yfw3Xxjj2YGFkTSZ8zsKPdPTjbvPl9l/R8OmFEZcw== X-YMail-OSG: 7pHXYawVM1kbrte9E7WMWvPiQb12CrjFEvcI7uwhkQ3ppgdLFg9z20BO0Fk8S8u TZHEZcRRGx1JuGjMz2JZMkEdOa3oiYICLFAIBT.HLkl4E4dzKmDzaiP0RIPfEIhA1zgwPU1oVAeq wXtzkNmtkVvbWOEJKnt_WyY6DKxqaBMO40kjiXzetGgYdTqq7esFQQ3J4hiSzM0K5hUU0D0MBqA1 Ei5YrnFRVKPHgIEiX57fZg.iEplBa6duoNy7SpxQG6UDbGGw7aTrnQYhwtQ1pymiY384TO8YxTdZ usHADbW6belQGzQimNNb7VjlO5yNgOOHPiFhcBXD2G30Fl7rWcwXOjWT0hYedrUX9633B._UY3Y0 OTcVmSU5UYB31veV3GGcj1iJPD.EVkh.sEBH9EtXsO_k1VlbPzX2s5I9.w1CWSAnKF5ZzECMqy08 AhS791.CpnMHrK.EfiYlHgFN66lRH3V7G8TeYKCdHu6rIJ.XJvzX53kRBeInrfzS5CEdWK1mKlKQ H6Fhdf8I6KzMemVjdKRz1zaJvGaFzta_acjbHd4N6p5VWoTe192HIUyBXfDSC7inZvUw43MrSHwe GcVrLy1VYuGz5jHSIdRLXmvAZFeFEMFRsa9eOtPKHUy6mfQJvOjY_Au2J41rPh6Hyxh3ea0qJv4Q .2LWSvorXTJbmsku4XU6KMDCSdl7xPPbda4brEEdxc7znGElUi1htRebrhXmfnFFYYAm_yv2dHpE iePoTMk5FRke2vp39UlITw_t7FJ.ueyt2VHGW68G1ILlGUPxZYRqPSaeYJA6DjvdX9p_VbZW0Lp7 Wa.9gCcA.taLuyB_h4uOuaHoO8A6rj7oUycezAnpZ0 X-Sonic-MF: Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic308.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 12:29:39 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--canary-production-sg3-6f58cd9b5-fkkv4 (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 48027c732308c3998974f10cfdd93edf; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 12:29:34 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <83pmgr88sk.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 23 Aug 2022 15:05:15 +0300") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20560 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.187.31; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic308-56.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:293872 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Why is this such a grave problem? E.g., to cancel drag-and-drop, the > user can drop it onto some place where dropping is a no-op, like some > window that doesn't accept drops or sometimes at the source from which > the stuff was dragged. I never had any problems with this. [...] > Maybe we are again asking too much from the GUI environment, and too > easily reject environments that are not 110% perfect? If so, it makes > little sense to do that with Emacs, whose GUI aspects are secondary. mouse-drag-and-drop-region cancels the drag and drop operation once the mouse pointer moves back into a frame that was created by the current Emacs session, so that more detailed mouse tracking can be used. Without that, mouse-drag-and-drop-region is noticably degraded. > It is IMNSHO bad policy for a serious project that intends to remain > alive for many years to put all of its eggs in a single basket. We > should instead actively seek and try using alternative GUI > environments, and we shouldn't reject them just because they are not > perfect. We aren't rejecting alternative GUI environments (in fact we are almost certainly the only program supporting as many as we do), just not making them the default. Not when over 90% of Firefox users (which covers the GNU/Linux demographic quite well) are still using X Windows.