From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Heerdegen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: master baf1a7a4a0: Turn gv-synthetic-place into a function Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 12:56:01 +0200 Message-ID: <87sfkjbrum.fsf@web.de> References: <835yhkzmn8.fsf@gnu.org> <878rmfx51p.fsf@web.de> <831qs7zj9e.fsf@gnu.org> <87v8piec78.fsf@web.de> <834jx2xphy.fsf@gnu.org> <878rmenmd4.fsf@web.de> <87sfklgmba.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87edw4bzrp.fsf@web.de> <83y1ucu4k9.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6974"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 22 14:00:30 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1obKsW-0001Zd-Jb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 14:00:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56372 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1obKsV-0006wA-IA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 08:00:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36116) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1obJsI-0006AE-Rd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 06:56:10 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.3]:42557) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1obJsH-0005Yr-2o; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 06:56:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1663844163; bh=8xFG7n8TifFqjwNSGFQu/N4kP+hxG5E1Y5rnMYr8Z8g=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=gSSzaL4ClfOuYGdZ8wzhmrqn1i9WBjBJ01x5QBFaZ74q5URddVh2eWGU48e3xIpRd a7Qy/wut9tGaQFeywFtweTBYJ3RD/KdUDDUfSTZbarvEVFwW2RSzpxXgTVXUbCGBFu HFmLUmgrOPqVR6s47FRefmD/J2Hq5JI4kcIycArBo/S8SqKviy01uosqTxbRdyAqwY goBPhzR2eHgTiBbHa61x74YT7reIQxsLl/pml+8nnvKZlO7QXYuJA1h9rXx9QArvGI 35EtbfmD1qi29ItDEE6L+K52e9QNexBNVPajMorFD7OYOAXPrLIgw93izDDvoi8wdX VElDI6Kcmxvxw== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Original-Received: from drachen.dragon ([94.222.172.180]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb005 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N2SPD-1pGzwS1HiB-013je9; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 12:56:03 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Wed, 21 Sep 2022 12:14:03 -0400") X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:RI33c167lH3cogOLHYRz+DEjS89B6LsiEQeiHMZ9VBDXwR7jttR Wq9CUiXjruVbLa8VXATPhZ6YEYlgBJsXL7T4UzHJOrGk3M6zM54slO4Xbzrjt+gBGcCCenF ez9y/KEXEg7ETNhY3BFmexI8L7OepaVuatt0oo5ZUG5mnHqoWyNWlvWzavVhTAMj7z8yHF/ nb8T8s/pFW1V8r6JaJhwg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:em5+YuIuJ68=:uG1Oo4rCkDrQvkBfl0gtwq +K/QaTmCaf8VWRbfcqji7R8l/m27wAga/3aeXUDjzluThvb/9ya1I92ylVq2wCVJ2m+lCOFdZ TfafKggSv8xj1sPTgNP51geDm7CIIThFfFELdtkQMi1H2X86xTT4b3TZmnZcqbI+r9t4M3lxg 5dGXxr/LmyBp/0iJP4L/OE/nqSU9JkBFJ5MK6OcKrEehcbPs8fvuQikvzJLg8LaJSVBXB3ylj wFLaC27BIX/9XwgUpKk4FFViBMPbd+wZnCjBeWuOU5Og+TiYYb1Rk/B96WI8U65TWekIF5mP5 VgxK0fDDPIRlPWnoEh3qtc0jYzmQLU7V89nTs/qlKf75/xkNd1oidXy8VZQyIHDqw88Gvg41P 7faKRCTkquRSE7lC1IsNP8LkpgaoJaKjZrSFbsJE0jod3t2BZlCt+gC6HgWamIZBrw/RaCc8/ O1V03wCwQGDEeDQ8kl6wiNMZNbbrkDq6kY2yN68hKTQSk1KsnGEWhcw7TP8xaJUAx0oMEk8nE PmPlWQVzJZ/M2KYLO/h6YqLBp1BZLsOqFXtHHHgkXlZR3R/FHrlm2UIKVN/FftSU+ConoiW/Z EvsJ9le+fZkar5TYodYak1TEUnSn+lFwtUx5GJz0wY42Kf+sYnLPIZeeqeI9Oc1NafHhXOjkN 0MypZlrZ+qU6TMI3NuQKlxU4o3/3FyGBVopfAagoT0EfgAkFYGaS/GWTyEgokdI6FB6nBvp5A lc5Yy45Pv9dhUDhD7dJnBW86sV3t6eFeSBDMWYOVL0f/dWQPfbFpVZvxvr1oHyfKXTHwzt7I Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.3; envelope-from=michael_heerdegen@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:295971 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: > It has some advantages, tho: > - I think the vast majority of those who are familiar with generalized > variables know the "lvalue" term as well, so there is not much loss. > - A non-negligible number of people who don't know "place" or > "generalized variables" have heard to word "lvalue" in one course > or another. > - "lvalue" is known to Wikipedia, contrary to "generalized variables". > - "lvalue" is shorter than "generalized variables". > - "lvalue" is obviously a special term with a technical meaning, contrar= y > to "place". A downside I see is that what we want to name are not really "values", the term could be misleading. Yes, and it would not really help to explain what it is. The descriptions I found "in the internet" also sound a bit more "meta" and less concrete than our wording and terminology. Just my subjective impression. I see that the term "lvalue" is already used in (info "(elisp) Generalized Variables") to capture those who already know that term. In sum for me it's good as it is. Michael.