From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2023 11:29:02 +0000 Message-ID: <87sf7rsfpd.fsf@localhost> References: <83msyemjx8.fsf@gnu.org> <871qfpoij6.fsf@gnu.org> <87fs45ivyo.fsf@localhost> <87h6okga15.fsf@localhost> <87cyz61cbp.fsf@localhost> <87v8cuqtkr.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33283"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 06 13:29:03 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qdqiV-0008S1-C5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2023 13:29:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qdqhn-0006sC-3J; Wed, 06 Sep 2023 07:28:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qdqhl-0006rw-W6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2023 07:28:18 -0400 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qdqhi-0007zJ-Fv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2023 07:28:17 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5CCB8240101 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2023 13:28:12 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1693999692; bh=aN3HuobZ5blo3hH9XfCqb2LbFI3X9rauGmgUR3U6BAs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:From; b=M0cuGbu28JVNX/wQ6tWyazq6NsiMd/91JT0Rc+A8xYAGNGER0+U0vtWRQC02uUou6 T+NDKSTXXLmPs88JSatTPA0+bwSqW401Jb3TmYyW0LkIr/N7ovlwmHJx6s1Nlaq9sE U4s36dRyXkW9PjI29vDj+u5QJPlZFBWL4xVn+NWAqxonOm8dxG0DRJltp4bImU+0fm 1xygaavlsoSamo2zIJ1xDzjfEOk/MEG5tBe0ooG2sHCU4kHyw7vTs2Y7Iv92nNOKBM UOurNrmrL3o1iDospyYhUON9dJw0dcK9yZEN1CDK3k1+FgACdXKHq+jTjaSpB/23r4 vLpdxYyRvbfJQ== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Rgg9774znz6txP; Wed, 6 Sep 2023 13:28:11 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310182 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > I was hoping to see that same smoothness with Org mode -- that you > specify the contents and Org mode owuld give youa manual with that > contents. But instead, it seems that Org mode for a manual would > specify Texinfo text to "export", and Org would generate Texinfo source > to export which Texinfo could then convert convert into manuals as output. I think I need to clarify. This is how export to info works _now_. However, nothing stops us from implementing direct export org->info without intermediate org->texi step. Someone just needs to do this job. > Could it be it possible to make Org mode generate the manual output > formats using contructs that are semantic in meaning, that specify > semantic markup for the contents of the manual -- and have Org mode > generate the output formats to represent the semantics of the manual > contents? That would be a good replacement for Texinfo. > I think this from Bastien Guerry > > Yes, that's the idea behind using one-char constructs for basic inline > markup (eg ~code~, /emphasis/, etc.) and two-chars constructs for more > specific inline markup (eg ~~defn~~, =~defvar~=, etc.). > > Is a sort of thing that might be smooth in this sense. It would specify > semantics of the contents, rather than "what to export". > > It might bot be the best way (as Po Lu says), but at least it is > semantic markup. Sorry, but I am lost here. Currently, Org mode does not support all the markup supported by texinfo. But we will change that. Meanwhile, Org implements info/manual export by ad-hoc extension allowing to add texinfo-specific markup. This is not ideal, and it does not need to be done after we do add the missing markup (Org equivalents of @kbd, @var, and other) > > One of the ideas was to follow TeXinfo markup closely, extending with > > some Org-specific needs: > > > Simple case: > > @name{} > > > If we need to escape { or } inside: > > @name{{ > > Extra configuration: > > @name[:key value ...]{} > > This describes a syntax, but not the semantics. > > For > > > Simple case: > > @name{} > > what's an example of what _name_ might be, and what would it mean? For example, @kbd{C-c C-x C-c} or @var{org-export-backends}. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at