From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Shrinking the C core Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2023 09:39:20 +0000 Message-ID: <87sf7qpbjr.fsf@localhost> References: <87ledwx7sh.fsf@yahoo.com> <877cpfybhf.fsf@yahoo.com> <873503y66i.fsf@yahoo.com> <87fs3ur9u8.fsf@dataswamp.org> <875y4moiiq.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87r0namn6t.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87sf7qqttk.fsf@localhost> <87lediml74.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10504"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Emanuel Berg Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 07 11:39:03 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qeBTa-0002X7-92 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 11:39:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qeBTH-0005w8-Fl; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 05:38:43 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qeBTG-0005sv-05 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 05:38:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qeBTC-0007Vq-Q9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 05:38:41 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 392AD240101 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2023 11:38:35 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1694079515; bh=TRXEt66jD2KLxO/C9Kf96ZHNqlwVv3tXUnRq/Da+8t4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:From; b=YizjskV5sBOR8Iymrpgo0uLXL9Pn5jFKX0+KH/tWllvBz698gA7YAs4IpN4LrSvXB liEHVyleGChzoIjlFV8cuEvT6GZz8K/qvvvdnI2gQ55pY2Db58vHCshn1LCsj1orCA TGdk4SU1p8pnw7Qp7Tva8kYQrvPjhEb8hiFXnrYB4iBUkpnndvXuS/XytPi0vLQSlc i8lJXJMBvUJvWmBc7tUtSiB9ZOuIk8D+xY1S8eB9grFmmSK1cyceFfi918Hlalkbcd ny/4dBKXwaGOUWyDk1FTi6mVOVHygxSGgu9hD4nW5eeEMMClH6ZMKGFy+uvwrdKEYv VxdeyPwSeaQ/g== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4RhDhB5ctVz6tmv; Thu, 7 Sep 2023 11:38:34 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <87lediml74.fsf@dataswamp.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310255 Archived-At: Emanuel Berg writes: > Please stop pushing for the disallowance of topics related to > SBCL and Emacs. It is a non-starter. Well. The main problem with "let's rewrite Emacs using X language" is that it has been discussed and even attempted (for example: https://github.com/remacs/remacs, https://github.com/emacs-ng/emacs-ng) many times. Without success. So, I can see how raising the same topic yet again does not look productive. Yet, I do agree that there is no reason to _forbid_ such discussions. But please clearly mark them under appropriate email subject, so that people who do not want to follow them could filter out the subject in their email client and not be bothered. > Also, please stop pushing for the disencouragement of using > the GNU Emacs Elisp features provided by cl-lib. > Also a non-starter. There is actually reasoning behind discouragement of using cl-lib in _Emacs source code_. In particular, things like `cl-loop' that constitute a mini-language of its own (or `pcase' for what its worth). When such "mini-languages" are used too much, without a clear need, people not familiar with CL conventions will have harder time to read the Emacs source code - increased entry barrier for contribution. Also, it is up to Emacs maintainers to decide on the preferred style inside Emacs sources. > One thing that can be discussed is how to get parallelism into > Emacs, to make use of modern CPU multicore architectures. > > Emacs is a single-thread Lisp machine written in C, so can't > we have a multi-thread Lisp machine, using the same language? > And not by rewriting the whole thing, rather extending it to > allow for multithreading? > > Didn't anyone try to do that already BTW? It feels like > a pretty basic idea and multicore CPUs have been around for > a while. It is not as easy as you may think. Naive attempts will fail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H1Pe9HkJ7I You can see the gory details in https://yhetil.org/emacs-devel/871qhnr4ty.fsf@localhost I'd appreciate if we move the discussion about parallelism there to have a single place with all the caveats detailed and discussed instead of scattering things all over emacs-devel. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at