From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Heerdegen via "Emacs development discussions." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Commands, term "closure" and online help Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 09:29:09 +0200 Message-ID: <87sewc8m9m.fsf@web.de> References: <861q76llng.fsf@gnu.org> <86y19ek6hx.fsf@gnu.org> <26141.19574.948512.394768@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> <86v84ik3bp.fsf@gnu.org> <86ttgs1s11.fsf@gmail.com> <87sewcplet.fsf@web.de> <86h6cs1olc.fsf@gmail.com> Reply-To: Michael Heerdegen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36412"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:FcHBzjUbOtuSuUn74NJjmyIyA68= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 14 09:29:22 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sStfe-0009Mi-Aq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 14 Jul 2024 09:29:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sSter-00059G-Ee; Sun, 14 Jul 2024 03:28:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sStel-000576-ED for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jul 2024 03:28:27 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sStej-0006yK-EB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jul 2024 03:28:27 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sSteh-0008E5-3m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jul 2024 09:28:23 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:321633 Archived-At: Joel Reicher writes: > > Aren't "dynamically defined functions" bytecode functions when > > running compiled code? So this would not be a better term. > > Which bit of the documentation are you thinking of? I can't find that > phrase with reference to bytecode. We are talking about the generated documentation in *Help*, right? I've just been using my own words. > > > AFAIU we want to tell that these functions will, when funcalled, be > > handled by the interpreter - thus, are interpreted functions in that > > sense. > > My understanding is that the closure is constructed the moment the > defun (et al) is done, regardless of whether the function is ever > called. > > I'm not familiar with the implementation details but it looks to me > from a trivial test this happens unconditionally; even when the > function being defined does not capture anything from its enclosing > scope... > > (defun blah ()) > > C-x C-e and then C-h f blah to see what I mean. (Maybe this gets > optimised later?) > > That's one of the reasons I think it might be helpful to refer to this > simply as a function that is "dynamically created", or some variation > on that. I know what you want to say. But technically, the only difference to named functions and commands is that these are just unnamed. But: Note that the wording used in the generated help pages has changed since the start of this thread: we are currently saying (at least in master) "interactive interpreted-function" or "interactive byte-code-function". Can you live with that? Michael.