From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jeremy Bryant Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Emacs website, Lisp, and other Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2024 23:27:39 +0100 Message-ID: <87sevj9b50.fsf@jeremybryant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24931"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: emacs-devel , Eli Zaretskii , Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 05 00:28:38 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sajiP-0006H9-Dz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2024 00:28:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sajhh-0001J3-2Y; Sun, 04 Aug 2024 18:27:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sajhf-0001Ih-MK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 04 Aug 2024 18:27:51 -0400 Original-Received: from out-177.mta0.migadu.com ([91.218.175.177]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sajhe-00039n-2Q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 04 Aug 2024 18:27:51 -0400 X-Report-Abuse: Please report any abuse attempt to abuse@migadu.com and include these headers. DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jeremybryant.net; s=key1; t=1722810461; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type; bh=y6r4p0Uw5cLd8mwN40YTHsBnJTRPAsvvXICBWtHBkxs=; b=cKlCRZ2Ra5b24UvqGv/kJ4Inu1OeU8vhm+6eG+g7C4wH6BBCmPAnYayec3Bmcei4Pecufm 1BWv3tU9ysscCKWzDyhRJny3VZj9ItSgsFvPUBgWWQNS0UewS5yuBfC4vaXcAZO+6mgBuM o2lDCGpX8HFpBLmazFPq7CYVdI+TjEy+shoO6rgQMC+mr4gLkS3c5SQ68Y0PDI+Ek54VGy wyWIas7BhdctDfhc27W68JGvUClUbGk/M8EZHMxOH9UC+dOczbLcrQ1YCnZQOCTAZGDEir 1UJE+G7vlGJDq/JSUkRk0HoDQQYiign/cxl2Ou7M2sgmADJWuto7totFZmRv5g== X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_OUT Received-SPF: pass client-ip=91.218.175.177; envelope-from=jb@jeremybryant.net; helo=out-177.mta0.migadu.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:322344 Archived-At: Reviewing the Emacs website, and previous discussions on this list below (admittedly not recent, but still relevant). It seems important to add some text on Lisp which is not currently there, as per ideas of RMS and Eli summarised below. Where is the repo for the Emacs website? What do people think? Previous discussions on the subject: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-12/msg00356.html RMS: " > We don't want to set Lisp up against other languages. > We do want to get across what it offers that benefits > an editor and environment such as Emacs. Yes we do, to some extent. The Emacs web site should say this: Lisp is the most powerful and elegant of programming languages. If you want to see how powerful and elegant a programming language can be, you need to learn Lisp. It will give you standard for measuring other languages. " https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-12/msg00335.html RMS: " Calling Emacs Lisp "python-like" is derogatory to Emacs Lisp. Python has some of the characteristics that make Lisp superior, but not all of them. Lisp is the most elegant and powerful programming language. That is what we should say. In Lisp, programs are structured data and it is easy to write other Lisp programs to operate on them. Programmers that don't know Lisp do not realize what is missing in other prograamming languages. " https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-12/msg00200.html Eli: " I believe the same could be true with other aspects. E.g., is it such a preposterous assumption that someone might be interested in coding in Lisp, instead of all the ad-hoc extension languages invented by other editors? "