From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: redisplay system of emacs Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 14:42:18 +0100 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87r5p7emkl.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <4B633B7C.8030700@gmx.de> <873a1nvlki.fsf@gmail.com> <20100130132651.GB1428@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1264858988 30576 80.91.229.12 (30 Jan 2010 13:43:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:43:08 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 30 14:43:01 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NbDbH-0007me-SB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 14:43:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39671 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NbDbH-0001t1-Cc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 08:42:59 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NbDbA-0001sm-F5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 08:42:52 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=57305 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NbDb9-0001sW-TK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 08:42:52 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NbDb3-0005J9-Fd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 08:42:49 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:43489) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NbDb2-0005I4-BW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 08:42:45 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NbDay-0007dc-Fe for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 14:42:40 +0100 Original-Received: from p5b2c1f67.dip.t-dialin.net ([91.44.31.103]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 14:42:40 +0100 Original-Received: from dak by p5b2c1f67.dip.t-dialin.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 14:42:40 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 58 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: p5b2c1f67.dip.t-dialin.net X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.90 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:cxCZj0ULEApDNPnAoDcVzJeOJTY= X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:120696 Archived-At: Alan Mackenzie writes: > Hi, Paul, > > On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 01:11:57PM +0100, Paul R wrote: >> Richard, > >> > The term "ecosystem" is best avoided because it supposes an amoral >> > stance. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html for the >> > explanation. > >> I don't think the word ecosystem "(...) implies the absence of intention >> and ethics", as stated in this page. > > Are you a native English speaker? "Ecosystem" is a system of ecology, > which is the study of how organisms react with eachother and their > shared environment. Implicit in ecology is its participants' Implicit in "ecosystem" you likely mean. > obliviousness to ecology. > > There are other words which also imply interdependency yet which are > less laden with loaded meanings. "Ecosystem" implies its participants > (hackers etc.) are on the level of bugs, beetles and bacteria. With regard to their function, yes. "Ecosystem" is used exactly when talking about an emergent rather than controlled system. >> Can you suggest an alternative word that expresses this simple, yet >> fundamental, concept ? > > A "community" for example, which expresses all the tenets of > interdependency and tension. But it's simply the wrong choice of words if you want to include the effects on entities that profit without active participation. The FSF is a _charity_, and the whole point of a charity is that it differs from a community by benefitting people on the receiving end. > If you want to emphasise the ideas of competition between bits of free > software (say, between perl, python and ruby), the best word is > perhaps "market", or "marketplace of ideas". Again, different connotations. By far the largest ratio of profiting people don't act as an active part in some "community". Choosing terms excluding them from consideration is not doing the concept full justice. Since free software changes the world far beyond the scope of its active communities, I don't find "ecosystem" a bad choice of words when describing the _effects_ of free software, even though it may prosper mostly from within communities. -- David Kastrup