From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dave Love Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Current state of python.el in the Emacs trunk Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 00:48:39 +0000 Message-ID: <87r5b2kyag.fsf@liv.ac.uk> References: <4D40F55C.2040400@gmail.com> <874o85t61z.fsf@liv.ac.uk> <87y65hukcj.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1298249348 31709 80.91.229.12 (21 Feb 2011 00:49:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 00:49:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Christoph , Chong Yidong , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 21 01:49:03 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PrJxW-0007vV-RF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2011 01:49:03 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39357 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PrJxV-0003KX-Hz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 19:49:01 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=40347 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PrJxD-0003EU-6l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 19:48:55 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PrJxB-0004LE-Mj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 19:48:43 -0500 Original-Received: from mail205.messagelabs.com ([85.158.140.179]:35529) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PrJxB-0004Ko-C6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 19:48:41 -0500 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: D.Love@liverpool.ac.uk X-Msg-Ref: server-10.tower-205.messagelabs.com!1298249319!48887606!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.9; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [138.253.100.159] Original-Received: (qmail 31607 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2011 00:48:40 -0000 Original-Received: from mxe.liv.ac.uk (HELO mxe.liv.ac.uk) (138.253.100.159) by server-10.tower-205.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 21 Feb 2011 00:48:40 -0000 Original-Received: from mailhube.liv.ac.uk ([138.253.100.157]) by mxe.liv.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PrJx9-0003PD-RW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2011 00:48:39 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mailhube.liv.ac.uk) by mailhube.liv.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PrJx9-0003Dk-Pd; Mon, 21 Feb 2011 00:48:39 +0000 Original-Received: from pc102091.liv.ac.uk ([138.253.102.91] helo=albion) by mailhube.liv.ac.uk with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PrJx9-0003Df-Lp; Mon, 21 Feb 2011 00:48:39 +0000 Original-Received: from dlove by albion with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PrJx9-0000y6-KS; Mon, 21 Feb 2011 00:48:39 +0000 X-Draft-From: ("nnimap+imap.liv.ac.uk:Misc" 8009) User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/22.2 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4-2.6 X-Received-From: 85.158.140.179 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:136305 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: > The only problem is that the very > reason for desiring such a switch is because nobody (including and > especially the most obvious candidate, Dave) has been willing to > maintain our python.el. I wasn't unwilling to maintain it, and I attempted in the past to get the Emacs version fixed and prevent problems being introduced, but that was rather unrewarding, and I gave up. It's not appropriate anyway, as rms seems to think I act in bad faith these days. If I was mainatinaing it, I'd just do what I've been doing separately, which doesn't seem acceptable. I haven't checked exactly what's currently in Emacs, but I'm baffled why, for instance, it got three .py files instead of a more maintainable one, and why changes were made which clearly broke things. > Now Fabian proposes a third Python mode. That sounds like adding innnsult > to injury, but I must say it is very tempting: > - its copyright is clean, like our python.el. > - he seems interested in maintaining it. I don't know what that's about, but I maintain a version with no unfixed bugs I'm aware of, and had various features (and not misfeatures) the others don't. Until I started working on it at the university, it was covered by an assignment (given potential problems with my previous employment were disregarded) and could just have been used. It may well need to be fixed for the incompatible Emacs changes that get made, but I'd fix it if told, and if it didn't break it for released versions. > Of course, I'd rather work at bringing the various python modes closer > to each other, rather than have them fork even further, so I'm not sure > what's the best course here. Why? python.el was intentionally different from python-mode.el for various reasons, like being a well-behaved Emacs (as opposed to XEmacs?) mode. I don't understand why you'd want something whose distinction as far as I can tell is violating conventions with fewer features and extra bugs. Actually, after all the propaganda about it, python.el code now seems to be migrating into python-mode.el (after stripping the copyright headers, contrary to the licence, of course). I do find this all pretty sad.