From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Vitalie Spinu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: font-lock-maximum-decoration should be 2 by default? Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 13:47:12 +0200 Organization: EUR Message-ID: <87r4r385of.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87wr0x8zxj.fsf@gmail.com> <831uj5bnid.fsf@gnu.org> <87obm98trc.fsf@gmail.com> <95FA6116C6194DAAA658F916B48C5E23@us.oracle.com> <874no12tan.fsf_-_@gmail.com> <87a9xsokd9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87a9xs1pqu.fsf@gmail.com> <874nnzrvc2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1345376854 3341 80.91.229.3 (19 Aug 2012 11:47:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 11:47:34 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Eli Zaretskii' , Drew Adams , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. 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[62.195.108.36]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j6sm32196343wiy.4.2012.08.19.04.47.14 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 19 Aug 2012 04:47:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <874nnzrvc2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (Stephen J. Turnbull's message of "Sun, 19 Aug 2012 20:10:21 +0900") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130004 (Ma Gnus v0.4) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 74.125.82.49 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:152670 Archived-At: >> "Stephen J. Turnbull" >> on Sun, 19 Aug 2012 20:10:21 +0900 wrote: > Vitalie Spinu writes: >> It's easy to get sick of too much customization. It's another well know >> paradox of human pshychology -- we want more choose but too much choice >> is bad for you > And the experiments you cite were conducted on a sample of Emacs > users? Surely not! The point is that Emacs users *are* different > (this is nearly a tautology), The full spectrum of Emacs users is broader than you seem to think. It's not only hardcore programmers, like you are. I met a guy who was using Emacs only for org-mode to organize himself! I also won't be surprised that the majority of Emacs users don't actually know enough elisp to be able to write useful scripts. As one of the developers of ESS, I see users which have no clue of how to customize even basic things in Emacs. They are still able to happily use ESS/Emacs, but they all rely on defaults. And this is why defaults are so important. So knowing elisp, or even the ability to customize things is not a prerequisite for an Emacs user at all. >> >> 3) Developers which would like to capture 30% of salad lovers will try >> >> to find workarounds. That is, add redundant, mode-specific >> >> font-lock customization, or mess with >> >> font-lock-maximum-decoration. >> >> > This is true, but I'm not sure if it's a problem. >> >> It's a problem in light of yours (2). Everyone wants a consistent >> interface. > But who decides what "consistent" means? The highlighting appropriate > for C is surely different from that for Lisp or Perl or Haskell. Some > will be common, I suppose, such as for literal strings. But what > about Perl "barewords"? What does consistency mean for something that > doesn't exist in most languages? Should shell commands be highlighted > differently depending on whether they're builtins, system commands, or > shell functions and aliases? Consistent in customization interface, not in that fontification is set by default. If there is variable font-lock-maximum-decoration that should be it. No X-mode-maximum-font-lock, foo-mode-best-font-lock or boo-mode-try-this-font-lock-level etc. > That kind of thing has to be decided by the mode developers, although > the Emacs maintainers often will offer suggestions, and for modes in > core Emacs will add/adjust to their own taste. And in the end the > dirge "Why do the defaults always suck?" applies anyway. :)